Random show and tell

[John Hutchinson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Hutchinson]

Steve and Chuck -

Fair enough! I know that you're both sceptical about such theories. I confess, having spoken to Michael about the bag, I thought his case was perfectly plausible, and I also admit that - being interested in shamanism and its material culture -I was more than willing to be convinced. My own view is that the Memling gul is altered in a way that suggests deliberate manipulation rather than incompetence, and that the 'tiger skin' pattern has echoes of comparable rugs from Tibet and elsewhere that have monastic, and sometimes shamanic, associations. Besides, it does appear that there were vestiges of shamanism in Afghanistan. Now, many years after I bought the bag, I would feel more comfortable with Michael's thoughts if there were other comparable examples in Baluch weaving, which is why I asked the question in the first place.

All the best,

John

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

That is an interesting piece Chuck. I wonder if this is a tribal identification?

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Joe,

I am pretty certain that's an inscription that is either reversed, or very poorly executed (which fits with the "still failing their drivers test" hypothesis).

Regards
Chuck

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

That is funny!

Does the circle part have a black leg slightly extending out that is covered up by debris or damage?

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Joe, John,

Joe - The small dark brown patch is a spot where the Moth Enemies dined.

John - There's a difference between totemic and shamanistic. The motifs on the upper part of the field on this piece are totemic, IMHO.

Many motifs or design elements are referred to as totemic in Rug World, the suggestion being that they connect to an ancient belief system.

Chuck

[Frank Martin Diehr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Frank Martin Diehr]

Hi all,

I am reminded of a thread I started some years back now, which prompted some similar discussion re. seemingly deliberate wonkyness in Baluch rugs and shamaism, have a look (again):

http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00106/quirky.htm

Kind regards

Frank

[John Hutchinson Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Hutchinson]

Thanks for that link, Frank. A very interesting discussion! I was glad to read that at least one other Baluch weaving has been discussed in the context of shamanism. I once owned a rug , probably Kurdish, that several people seriously thought might have been made under the influence of psychedelic drugs. I was never convinced, but it was an intriguing notion, perhaps not to be dismissed too lightly.

Best wishes,

John

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

There are many that speculate on the origin of a piece. It’s part of the drive and lore of those whom love textiles and drawn to the attraction. In reality, we don’t know a lot about a rug that was made long ago or what its intended purpose truly was. We have assumptions and that is about it. Even pieces kept within a family or village have tall tales that have been modified throughout the years. The only real evidence we have are a few scientific approaches that help us with dating and dye materials.
In my opinion, I would not rule out spiritual, good luck and warding off evil overtones in a lot of weavings. The presence of an elder Shaman within a tribe or village sounds legit just not in the way Westerners may see it today. Even today within villages and neighborhoods, there is always one person, normally a female that will read your future within an empty coffee cup for example. The Turkic people were very superstitious and still are today in a culture that although has been modernized, it still holds cultural values and principles from centuries ago.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Joe

I don't doubt that there were shamans, weddings, circumcisions and assorted exotic things going on. The question is, how does anyone know that a particular textile was an element in it? There are ways - the pattern of wear on a rug that was actually used for prayer, for example - but such evidence is uncommon and not definitive.

Steve Price

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I agree Steve.