Old Torba ID help needed

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I think I posted this a few years ago but at the time, I really didn’t have the specifics down. I am looking for suggestions on possible tribal affiliation.

120x34 cm
47x13.5 in

UPDATE CORRECTION: Asymmetrical open right. (Thank you Joseph)

KSPI 288
KSPD 4464

Depressed warps
Wool on wool
light brown wefts

6 colors. The black in the pics is actually dark blue. I’m guessing natural dyes.

Age: ? Possibly 2nd half of the 19th C?

Fringes are not original and were done by my wife with the correct knots and period correct colors.

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Joe,

Tekke motifs, Saryk structure. Hmmm

Regards
Chuck

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I agree Chuck. It’s a very high knot count which I checked about 10 times to confirm. BTW, what appears to be an orange color on the torba is actually a shade of red. In my notes I just logged it as orange’ish red.

[Joseph R. Putnak Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joseph R. Putnak]

Hi,

The flattened 'turret' guls, multiple borders, extensive use of what appears to be cochineal dyed wool (reddish-purple on the back - last picture), as well as the high knot count and deeply depressed warp pairs (some almost completely depressed, others partially) suggest to me that this Turkmen torba dates to the first decades of the 20th century. The color differences, front and back, suggest that the pile side was chemically washed at some point. I have seen similar examples attributed to the Tekke, possibly from the Merv oasis.

Joseph

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thank you Joseph for your response. I don’t think a chemical washing was done. The pics may look different due to lighting but the back and face are nearly the same. I think the back may be slightly more muted than the front from use but that is just an assumption. I also suspected the number of borders would indicate early 20th C.

Inventory item #64 is nearly complete. The work continues.

[Joseph R. Putnak Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joseph R. Putnak]

Joe, all;

Joe, while I don't doubt your assessment of the knot type in your Turkmen torba, ASY (open-left), I tried applying the method referenced by Phil in a previous thread (https://warpandweft.club/knotting-comparisons/). I cropped your first image (image_1970) to show what I believe are three white knots tied on a pair of adjacent warps that appear to be only slightly depressed (see image, below). Unless I am misinterpreting, it appears that the right-hand node is offset from and positioned below (i.e., lower than) the left-hand node, which according to the method referenced would indicate that these three knots are of the ASY-R (or open right) type. However, looking at additional knots (tied on warps with varying degrees of depression) in other areas in both images of the back of your torba, I could find examples that were less clear. In fact, in some isolated knots the left-hand node appeared to be slightly lower than the right-hand node, indicative of an ASY-L knot. So, I am not sure what to make of this; perhaps I am just misinterpreting. If so, it would not be the first time!

Joseph

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Joe,

I have a similar one with a full warp depression structure. I think 1900 +/- 15 years is likely. 14H x 18 V - 252 kpsi.







Regards,
Chuck

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Joseph….your knowledge amazes me not only on dyes and color but also rug structure. I went back for a second look at my piece. I will say it’s rather challenging because the pile is probably 1mm high. Under a lighted loupe, the piece is 100% open right just as you said. Im not sure how or why my first reading was incorrect but it was. I appreciate your assistance!

Chuck, I like your piece better than mine. It’s a nice example.