Yomud Main Carpet with date

[Mikko Saikku Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mikko Saikku]

Dear all,

Bought this quite typical Yomud main carpet with Dyrnak guls from a local estate auction. To me, it looked like a late 19th century product. It's in really excellent shape with full pile, although I suspect it may have been subjected to some sort of mild chemical wash.



The intriguing thing is that it has an inscription with a date. Unfortunately, I cannot make out the second (pretty crucial!) character. The rest is pretty easy, I think: 1*25. If the second character is 3, the hijri qamari date would be ca. 1909 and the hijri shamsi date 1947. It definitely does not look or feel like mid-20th century production.





What do you think about the age of the rug--and the mystery character? And what about the two characters at the end?

Best,

Mikko Saikku

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I’m not so sure about a chemical wash. The early Yomut rugs had more of a brown color to them.

The date is confusing and I’ve never seen a dated Yomud rug before. To me it appears the second digit is a number two woven incorrectly. The date to me looks to be 1220. Which would convert to 1806 or so. The letters or script could be a name or initials.

Things that would help would be a knot count and a size.

[Joseph R. Putnak Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joseph R. Putnak]

Hi,

The date could be 1 3(?) 2 5 AH, which corresponds to 1907-08, which would be consistent with the design and coloration.

Joseph

[Egbert Vennema Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Egbert Vennema]

Hi to all, i ll like this rug ,the rugs rendition it s not bad. ( ! ) , Maybe a few hours with it s front in the sun at twelve o clock . Who knows. How about it s weight ? And size?
, have seen a dated yomut before. Regards. Egbert

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I showed the date to my friend who is from Iran. He said the date is 112 and what I (we) thought was the five is actually an “h” and is the last letter of what we see as initials is in fact a name of a person. More than likely the weaver.

[Guest Close Guest]

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your comments! This is the first time I've "met in person" a Turkmen rug with an inscription--to my understanding, they are quite rare.

I'm away from home today but will send some technical info tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Mikko Saikku

[Mikko Saikku Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mikko Saikku]

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your comments! This is only the second time I've "met in person" a Turkmen rug with an inscription--to my understanding, they are quite rare. And yes, the 4th character could well be the Arabian "h." But why have a series of just three numbers in the inscription?

I'm away from home today but will send some technical info tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Mikko Saikku

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

I showed the date to my friend who is from Iran. He said the date is 112 and what I (we) thought was the five is actually an “h” and is the last letter of what we see as initials is in fact a name of a person. More than likely the weaver.

According to Google Lens and ChatGPT the number will be 112. ChatGPT states that the other part probably will be "an unclear abbreviated name/signature".

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi,

It is common for inscription dates on Persian rugs to be missing the leading "1", and there are a lot of Yomud residing in far northeast Iran.. And it is possible that the middle numeral is a not-that-well-done "4" in the Farsi form. Which would make this date, 1241. In the Persian solar calender (Shamsi) this would work out to 1862-1863, which is not unreasonable given the appearance of the rug. That said, enterprising weavers who recognize the monetary value of age, in rug collecting, could conceivably "err" in their favor.

Anyway, my opinion, worth everything you paid for it...

Regards
Chuck

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Chuck

It's also not unusual for dates that include a zero to be woven without it. And, of course, most of the women who wove were illiterate and were simply copying something.

I have a Yomud bicycle seat cover somewhere that has "1969" inscribed.

Steve Price

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

According to Google Lens and ChatGPT the number will be 112. ChatGPT states that the other part probably will be "an unclear abbreviated name/signature".

Not sure how to interpret this. Are you confirming what my friend said or insinuating my information was false and I just got it from the internet?

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Not sure how to interpret this. Are you confirming what my friend said or insinuating my information was false and I just got it from the internet?

Of course, this will confirm what your friend said.

The rug is quite a splendid find, besides!

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thanks for the clarification Eric!

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thanks for the clarification Eric!

Sorry for expressing me ambiguously, Joe!

[Mikko Saikku Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mikko Saikku]

Dear all,

Many thanks for your comments. Here's a bit more information on the rug:

- 315 x 185 cm
- circa 153 knots per square inch
- vertical and horizontal knot count close to 2:1 (17/9)
- seven colors by quick examination: dark blue, medium blue, white, yellow, dark brown, medium brown, and reddish brown
- all colors seem natural

I consulted three friends from our university's Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies program and they all agreed that the inscription reads either

لابره ۱۱۲ / Labore/Labare/Labere 112

or

لابر ۱۱۲۵ / Labor/Labar/Laber 1125

(One of them pointed out that the word "labyr" is "anchor" in Turkmen.)

Personally, I doubt the rug could be older than 150 years, 1890 to 1910 would be my educated guess. In any case, it is in immaculate condition, except for considerable and unfortunate fading . It came from an estate with other old ("5th quarter") rugs (a Turkmen ensi and three Baluch) and plenty of nice furniture, so I guess it must have spent a century or so in a drawing room, exposed to sunlight but not stepped on!




Any additional comments are more than welcome!

Mikko Saikku