Age of Youmud rug

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Gentlemen, just got this one from an auction. It is with original papers from Nils Nassim shop in Sweden dated 1946. From the information available, Nils’s father was a word recognized rug expert at a time. Nils Nassim himself was a rug and antique dealer. One could find some pieces from his oriental collections pop up on auctions from time to time. My question is about dating this rug correctly. As we could see from the papers it could not be later than 1946. On the other hand, all exports from Soviet Russia at a time was strictly controlled and centralized from late 1920’. From 1930 all the exports came from “Koverkustexport” (both new production and used pieces with high export potential). I am not sure any such trade existed during WW2 or was resumed one year after.

Could it be 1930-1940 pre-war stock? Or even earlier piece? The shades for me are very consistent with the mid 1930 fashion. This browns reds and blues could be seen everywhere in the period decorative arts. Worth mentioning that exactly same rug (size, design and colors) was published in 1975 book on Russian rug production as a standard of highest quality Soviet production.

Suprisingly the warp is cotton made. I do not remember if i have ever seen any cotton base in Turkmen rugs. And it is also very dence - about 500,000 knots per squre
meter.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Konstantin

That's a handsome rug. Nothing about it suggests Soviet era production to me, and my best guess of age would be mid to late 19th century. I think your estimate of knot density is off by miles. I don't know whether that ruler is in inches or cm, but my count is about 80/square inch if it's inches, about 80 per square cm if it's cm. That's pretty much in the range I'd expect for a Yomud main carpet.

Please note that we like to have people use their full names when posting. If you'll send yours to me (sprice1h@gmail.com), I'll change your user name to it.

Best

Steve Price

[Konstantin Lapochkin]

Thank you Steve. I would email you my full name in a moment. The ruler is in cm so if your count is right that makes 800,000 per sqm. It does not look so to me. You alssuggest it is older than i think. For being late 19c (which i'd love it to be) it has too many bright non natural dyes.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Konstantin

I used the colors on my monitor to estimate age. They probably aren't the same as the colors of the rug that you can see in your hands.

Best

Steve Price

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Seve that is exactly i have started the topic, It is fairly easy to find and understand late 19c Yomud. But this piece looks DATED highest quality rare export production made in late 1930'. Could be used as a color reference of that age

[Guest Close Guest]

Re the knot count. I am only seeing approx. 28 knots per sqr centimetre, so wouldn't that make it 280,ooo / 300,000 per sqr metre?

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Phil on your picture i count exactly twice your amount 7x8 or 28x2)). 56. so 560.000 in a squre meter. Where am I wrong?

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Konstantin

You're almost certainly right. I counted knots along the edge of the ruler and just estimated in the other direction. I'm not at all accustomed to using the metric system on rugs, although I'm comfortable with it in many other applications. I think in knots per square inch - a much smaller area than a square meter.

Steve Price

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Konstantin,

Phil is correct, within the area shown it is 4 horizontal and 7 vertical.

See image below. Inside the black box are two nodes of a single white knot.

Regards
Chuck

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Thank you Chuck I did not know that((. That is why i always see my rugs as super dence). In onther words what you are saying - one just have to count the visible ...bumps(?) in a square cantimeter and devide the result by 2?

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Thank you Chuck I did not know that((. That is why i always see my rugs as super dence).

Was just about to reply when Chuck's answer popped up to -thankfully - confirm my observation, as I was starting to wonder how / where I went wrong.

What you have in the image I made up of the one cm is three full knots across (i.e. each showing the two knot nodes) and two half knots (on left and right where the vertical 'tape' cuts them in half as it were).

In onther words what you are saying - one just have to count the visible ...bumps(?) in a square cantimeter and devide the result by 2?

Unfortunately I don't think it is quite that simple. Generally probably yes, but not always, as sometimes the knots may be very depressed, hiding one 'bump' (knot node). But I'll let the experts answer your question in more detail. I was lucky to find a web page that, although geared toward Chinese and Tibetan rugs / knots, 'carries over' in to other regions rugs and has helped me immeasurably with regards counting knots and their shapes, etc.

[Mikko Saikku Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mikko Saikku]

Hi Konstantin,

An intriguing rug! I agree with Steve that it does not resemble typical Soviet production, but maybe they had some sort of deluxe class of Yomud main carpets in production before WWII?

Best,

Mikko

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Hi Konstantin,

An intriguing rug! I agree with Steve that it does not resemble typical Soviet production, but maybe they had some sort of deluxe class of Yomud main carpets in production before WWII?

Best,

Mikko

Mikko that was my point. MOST of the soviet era rugs we see in the market are the rugs of a medoicre quality bought by chance on a secondary market is vintage. This one was officially selected and sold for export. in your words - de lux edition. Remember - everything went on export from USSR was of much higher quality than for local market.

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

If I may ask, where does the determination of this rug being a 'Yomud' come from? The documents that you got with the purchase Konstantin?

If so, or even if not, what else (in the design, etc) would make one classify this rug as a Yomud?

Thanks, Phil

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

Well Philip, for me it is like a wrining on a wall. What else could it be? this is typical Yomud guls. Kepse if i am not mistaken. As a reference you could compare with a poor picture in an old Soviet rugs that were in production at a time

[Konstantin Lapochkin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Konstantin Lapochkin]

[/QUOTE]Well Philip, for me it is like a wrining on a wall. What else could it be? this is typical Yomud guls. Kepse if i am not mistaken. As a reference you could compare with a poor picture in an old Soviet rugs that were in production at a time[/QUOTE] in an old Soviet book I mean