Fars 19th century rug ?

[Alex Vargas Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alex Vargas]

Thank you, Joe.
The truth is I’ve never been to the Alhambra in Granada, but I’d really love to go. The funny thing is I’ve actually been to Granada several times in the past, but back then I was only thinking about having fun and skiing—there’s a wonderful ski resort up there !
On the other hand, I have a lot of family in southern Spain and I’ve spent long periods of my life there, especially when I was a child,
so it was totally normal to see examples of Arab art everywhere... but that’s no excuse—I really must visit the Alhambra soon.

Back to the rug—I'm more and more convinced that it could be a Qashqai piece.
Since it has a motif that looks like a stamp, I thought it might be interesting to do a bit of research on the Qashqai and their origins, just to see if I could find any symbol or object that might give me clues about the seal in my rug.
I feel a bit like Indiana Jones right now

I’ll try to keep it short, otherwise this could get too long—but if anyone wants the “extended version,” I’ll gladly write it up.
I’ve been reading British army reports from the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and from there I managed to find other modern studies.
I was able to confirm the genealogical connection between the Shahilu dynasty of the Qashqai and Uzun Hasan of the Bayandur dynasty, rulers of the Aq Qoyunlu—which was super exciting.
Incredible the kind of information you can find at the Qatar National Library. I’ll drop the link below:



https://www.qdl.qa/en/archive/81055/...01452.0x0002fe

While researching the Aq Qoyunlu, I found out they used symbols called "tamgas"—tribal marks used by Turkic tribes to indicate identity, ownership, and lineage.
In the case of the Aq Qoyunlu, the ruling Bayandur dynasty had their own tamga, often represented as a simple geometric figure. This symbol appeared on coins, official seals, architecture, and possibly on carpets—there are mentions of its use in textiles.











To me, some of these tamgas look quite similar to the symbol in my rug.




What if this stamp is a surviving vestige of Aq Qoyunlu symbolism?
And what if the rug was somehow connected to the Shahilu dynasty?!
Wow, that would be something! Of course, it’s most likely just a beautiful early 20th-century piece—but what if it’s not?
Clearly it’s not a nomadic rug, but definitely Qashqai.
Well, dreaming is free—and if it turns out to be nothing, at least it’s been fun.

I think I’ll keep digging into these tamgas and come back soon with more info.

Kind regards,
Alex

[Alex Vargas Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alex Vargas]

Hi everyone,
Yesterday I realized I hadn’t searched for anything about tamgas here on Turkotek — my bad! I’ve now come across a thread discussing the term:
http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00040/tamgas.htm

However, after reading through it, I see there was quite a bit of confusion around the existence and use of tamgas (or damgas), so I’d like to share what I’ve been able to gather. Hopefully, this will help shed some light on the topic.

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The word tamga comes from Proto-Turkic tamga or damga, which originally meant:

“burned mark,” “seal,” “symbol,” or “impression.”

It is related to the verb tamğamak, meaning “to mark” or “to engrave.”

Historically, a tamga was a tribal or familial identity mark, branded or carved, and used to:

• Mark livestock (like a branding iron),
• Indicate clan or tribal affiliation,
• Serve as a family emblem—almost like a heraldic crest,
• Seal documents, sign alliances, or witness contracts.

In modern Turkish, the word appears mainly as damga.
Example: damga vergisi = stamp tax or official seal duty.

In older or eastern Turkic languages (such as Turkmen, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Kazakh), the form tamga is more commonly preserved.

In Mongolic languages, a similar term exists — tamkha or tamga, with a comparable meaning: tribal mark or seal.

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Historical evidence


The term appears in Göktürk inscriptions (6th–8th centuries CE) from Mongolia and Central Asia. These are the earliest surviving written records in any Turkic language, inscribed in runic script (the Orkhon alphabet).

The ancient spelling is:

(tamga), found in inscriptions like those of Bilge Kağan and Kül Tegin, located in the Orkhon Valley, Mongolia.

In later sources, such as Rashid al-Din's Jāmiʿ al-tawārīkh (14th century), the term tamgha/tamga is used more explicitly to refer to tribal emblems of the Turks and Mongols.

Under Mongol administration, tamgha also came to mean “trademark tax” — a semantic shift reflecting its use as an official seal of authority.


(I had to attach images because it seems the system doesn't support these characters)

https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damga_...Tamgalar%C4%B1

Kind Rgards,
Alex

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Getting back to this after a long break. We previously spoke of the “Wheel of Fortune” (Çarkıfelek) motif. I believe we concluded that it was utilized from the west coast of Turkey and all the way into Iran and beyond. During my reading today of “Woven Gardens, Nomads and Village Rugs of the Fars Province of Southern Persia” 1979 (edited by David Black and Clive Loveless)
on page 130 refers to a similar motif as four hearts stemming way back to a 14c Mongolian shield.

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Alex,

I agree this piece iappears to be from south Persia. It contains two strong indicators; the first is the incomplete motifs along the bottom of the rug, which are a remnant of a quincunx border that is very typical of Qashqai and Khamseh work (the little squares with the crossing pattern; sometimes it's a diamond rather than a criss-cross). An example of that border style is shown in the outer border of the bag shown below. The other is the nature of the warps. It is very unusual to find mixed materials in Qashqai rugs., and in fact the mix of brown, gray, and ivory warp yarns is a strong indicator of Khamseh work. The "endless knot" motif is found in a variety of forms in south Persian weavings. So I'd say this is probably a Khamseh rug.

Regaards
Chuck