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Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

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Old October 6th, 2018, 07:34 PM   #1
Robert Galka
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Default How Old Would This Hamadan Be?

Just curious, I bought it a couple of days ago.





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Old October 6th, 2018, 07:52 PM   #2
Phil Bell
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Robert,

I would say between 20-50 years old. Have a look at the other Hamadans in the Vacuum cleaner bite post. The colours in your one are mostly synthetic and although synthetic dyes have been around for over 100 years I think this is definitely later.
Prior to 1935 the label would have said Persia I think.

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Old October 6th, 2018, 08:08 PM   #3
Robert Galka
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It almost looks like the label on the right was applied later? It's hard to tell.

The seller said it's an antique, but that term means different things to different people.
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Old October 6th, 2018, 08:12 PM   #4
Phil Bell
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Robert,

Yes it may well have been applied later of course but I think I will stick with my original guess. I dont count myself as one of the experts that inhabit the forum so lets see what they say.

It is a typical Hamadan and hand made as the label says.

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Old October 6th, 2018, 09:29 PM   #5
Steve Price
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Robert

I'd be surprised if it's as old as my youngest kid (27 years). Rug dealers know what antique means in the rug world (100+ years), and if a dealer told you that this is an antique he knows nothing about what he sells or, more likely, he was lying.

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Old October 7th, 2018, 03:03 AM   #6
Robert Galka
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Well at least now I know that I don't have to treat it like an antique. I bought it from an older lady who knew less about rugs than me.

It must of been used in a high traffic area, because it has a lot of wear for its age.
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Old October 7th, 2018, 03:44 AM   #7
Chuck Wagner
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The fluorescent pink is something that lends credibility to a recent manufacture.

I'm a little more generous than Steve but not much. I would have guessed 1960s-1970s.

It's palette is inconsistent with older Hamadan work.

And, putting a rug at the entry door of a rug shop for a few years can alter the space-time continuum.

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Old October 7th, 2018, 01:01 PM   #8
Steve Price
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Galka View Post
It must of been used in a high traffic area, because it has a lot of wear for its age.
Hi Robert

It's not uncommon for dealers in western Asia to put new rugs outside on dirt roads, where they "age" in a week or so.

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Old October 7th, 2018, 07:43 PM   #9
Rich Larkin
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Hi Robert,

I am in accord with others, particularly Chuck. That particular pink places it well past the mid-point of the 20th century in my experience. Even without it, I would be hard-pressed to place the rug much before, say, 1060. As to the wear, I can attest (unfortunately) to the fact that it doesn't take that long for perceptible wear to show up on a rug exposed to significant traffic of a specific nature over an extended period. A shop doorway, or something like that, would do it. There would be no need to imagine a 'fake aging' treatment...which does happen. When I visited Iran in the 1960s, I saw several room-sized rugs in the middle of city streets. I remember thinking, "This thing is going to look like a new workshop rug with a lot of wear, and motor oil on it. Will anybody be fooled?"

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Old October 8th, 2018, 12:59 AM   #10
Robert Galka
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I thought the artificial aging thing was something that was happening only recently? I didn't realize that it was going on in the 60's. It doesn't make sense to me at all. When I buy something new, I want it to look new.
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Old October 8th, 2018, 01:18 AM   #11
Steve Price
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Hi Robert

Antiques are much more valuable than new stuff, not only for rugs. The rug collector community has virtually no interest in new rugs, with a few exceptions (new means anything much less than 75 years old).

Making new stuff look old has been going on with all sorts of things for ages. Some of the techniques are highly creative. With Subsaharan African sculpture, villagers spit chewed food onto the piece and then let chickens peck at it. The result is a crusty patina that collectors treasure as evidence of great age.

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Old October 10th, 2018, 06:43 AM   #12
Patrick Weiler
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The Hamadan rug you bought is a good, sturdy "furnishing piece" that should serve you well for decades. But it is not something a devoted antique rug collector would add to their "collection". I have a number of furnishing pieces, but also a separate collection of older, tribal pieces. Steve noted that antique rugs are much more valuable than "new stuff". That was the operating assumption I had when first buying rugs. And that was 30 years ago. I visited several shops and bought a few newer handmade rugs, then began to learn more about the old ones and bought a decent one at a very high price. I quickly realized that this practice had serious problems unless you had a LOT of disposable income. So I schlepped around and slowly but surely found a few things that were acceptably old, acceptably tribal and acceptably inexpensive. So my collection expanded with an ocassional expensive piece supplemented by a number of bargains here and there. My local dealer had been through a handful of recessions - like Donald Trump he knows that recessions bring prices down - and a couple of years ago he said he was buying more rugs than selling due to the drop in value that most antiques have experienced. So today you can acquire a collection for half what I had paid - and a few high-profile collectors have "taken a bath" selling at auction over the last few years. But, selective collectors have also made a lot of money when selling their really good pieces. Being a novice you will think high quality antique rugs are REALLY EXPENSIVE, but in general prices have declined. Supply (ebay and other online venues) has increased but demand has tanked according to some antique rug dealers. I love having a bunch of old rugs and bags around, but I try not to think about the return on investment. I consider the time I possess a piece to be amortizing the purchase price.

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Old October 10th, 2018, 10:38 PM   #13
Steve Price
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Hi Anyone

Patrick's post reminded me of an article I wrote for Turkotek more than 30 years ago. You might find it of interest. Here's a link to it.

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Old October 11th, 2018, 04:36 AM   #14
Patrick Weiler
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Steve,
Interesting article, and it does mirror my collecting strategy; basically to buy what appeals to me from a visual, artistic, anthropological and lifestyle perspective. I was curious about one statement you made, below,"...an article I wrote for Turkotek more than 30 years ago". I had to count on my fingers, but I didn't think Turkotek has been around quite that long. So I checked the Home Page, where it says:
"TurkoTek was conceived and developed by Tom Stacy in early 1997". My rudimentary math ability indicates that "only" 21 years have passed since then. The only thing that may explain the difference is that you wrote the article 30 years ago and it was published in a different publication. Because if you really did write that 30 years ago, knowing that 9 years later you would be posting it on Turkotek, one might think that your prescience of the rug market should have allowed you to make a killing by buying those pieces which are now at the top of the market.

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Old October 11th, 2018, 12:56 PM   #15
Steve Price
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Hi Patrick

I wrote it when Tom Stacy was still running Turkotek, probably around 1995 - 1997. The 30 year figure was just me having a senior moment.

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Old October 11th, 2018, 03:39 PM   #16
Chuck Wagner
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Steve

Wait till you get older...

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Old October 11th, 2018, 04:15 PM   #17
Steve Price
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Hi Chuck

I'm already older. Growing old was kind of fun, being old only has three positive things about it.
1. I no longer have to drink to forget.
2. I no longer worry about what I'm going to do when I grow up.
3. I no longer worry about dying young.

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