November 12th, 2012, 12:32 PM  1

literature sources for Anatolia

Thanks a lot, Manfred Bieber, for this wonderful essay!

Two remarks:

1. You extrapolate results of your own research with yarns that underwent fermentation to yarns taken from old carpets, where the details of the dyeing operations are not known. The assumption that those were dyed in the same way seems to be the least unprobable one. Have similar effects been observed by other operations/chemical substances?
May be yeasts develop certain surfactant-active metabolites that occur as well in certain plants? May be certain organic acids - you mentioned lactic acid?

2. You suppose in ancient times might have been done in a similar way. Do we have, according to your knowledge, independant from your observations literature sources about how the dyes were done? And: by whome? Villagers/nomadic people versus professional dyers in some urban centre?
November 16th, 2012, 06:13 AM    2

Hi Michael,
interesting hints for fermentation of wool are given for Anatolia:
1. Böhmer and Brüggemann: "Teppiche der Bauern und Nomaden in Anatolien" 1980.
2. Bieber und Fröhlig: "Anatolische Dorfteppiche, das Kavacik-Projekt" 1988
3. Korur: "Pflanzenfarbsto ffe in der Türkei" 1937
4. Eyüboglu et al."Dogal Boyalara Yün Boyama" 1983
November 21st, 2012, 11:03 AM    3

Dear Manfred,

thanks for publishing those sources! But in order to obtain a more lively discussion here I guess you should cite some essential content from those sources here. I do not suppose the readers here have these books at hand at home.


Michael Bischof
December 30th, 2012, 01:05 PM   4
Moschkovas text is not helpful...
Ok, I managed to get one of those books cited:
Moschkova, V.G: Carpets of the People of Central Asia of the Late XIX and XX Centuries. - Tucson, 1966. Edited and Translated by George W. O'Bannon and Ovadan K. Amanova-Olsen. ISBN 0-9653421-0-7.
In chapter 6 ,,dyes and dyeing techniques" are reported. I had read another copy of it several decades ago - and felt disappointed again. With the exception of isparak dyeing on p. 39 the ,,fermentation dyeing" applies only to a lengthy preparation of the yarn, sometimes, but not always, combined with a cold alum treatment and sometimes followd by a kind of ,,fixing" with chogan. For a madder red (p.38) ,,...the yarn was sprinkled with madder and left for one night. In the morning the dyed yarn was washed in clean water". (No quantities are given nor further details)
Sorry: even if one would use big surplus amounts of madder this would not give the deep red tones we love in good Turcoman weaves.
The chapter on Indigo is so disparate that one would not get any useful dye following it.
So it appears that this chapter is like the ,,material" one could collect in Anatolia in the last decades: a puzzle of single details that cannot be arranged to form a ,,working" mosaic picture. It is not even clear who actually made the dyes, some village weavers themselves or professional people, located either in weaving center villages or in small cities in the area. Only one remark on p. 39 [,,According to weavers, at the beginning of the 19th century in the remote regions of Central Asia (the western Caspian region and others), where there were no domestic dye works, yarn was sent off with pussing caravans to the Khiva Khanate, Iran and even to India to be dyed blue."]
Yes, this is a rational guess if one looks at the dye qualities of the somehow ,,early" Turcoman weaves. The question remain whether the madder-based dyes were not made in a similar way.