Posted by Filiberto Boncompagni on 09-09-2006 10:22 AM:

Turkmen wagireh

Dear all,

Iím a bit surprised by the lack of reactions to these two wagireh:

Turkmen werenít supposed to use such things, right?



Posted by Steve Price on 09-09-2006 11:17 AM:

Hi Filiberto

Both appear to be repesentative of the weavings of settled urban Turkmen, rather than of the nomadic tradition rugs. I never gave much thought to whether settled Turkmen used vagireh, but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.


Steve Price

Posted by Chuck Wagner on 09-09-2006 11:26 AM:


I don't see any reason why equal weight wouldn't be put on the notion that nomadic grandmothers made these things for their children and grandchildren. It's eminently practical and a nice substitute for having to travel a hundred miles just to spend days and days babysitting intolerable brats while the son & daughter escape to the steppes for a holiday. You just send it to the camp of the offspring, with a nice basket of fruit...

Chuck Wagner

Chuck Wagner

Posted by R. John Howe on 09-10-2006 11:10 AM:

Hi Filiberto -

Although I'm one of those who thinks that it is likely that the weaving of wagirehs was useful wherever, and for long as, weavers have thrown shuttles, I'm not much impressed with these two examples.

It's not just that they seem likely woven by settled weavers, they do not seem to have much age and the second one mixes tribal usages (a Tekke major gul with lots of Ersari devices) and the colors are not those that we celebrate in old Turkmen examples.

I expect neither of these pieces is very old and they are for that reason a little suspect. Commercial weavers weaving Turkmen designs might find wagirehs particularly useful, but these seem to me less than convincing candidates for establishing that tribal and nomad weavers of the Turkmen variety wove wagirehs.

Just my view.


R. John Howe

Posted by Rob van Wieringen on 09-11-2006 04:26 AM:

Beshir Torba

Although I know it is not realy a wagireh, but more a torba with wagireh features, I thought it would be nice throwing this one in.
It is like a zoomed in fragment. The ornamentation I could trace back to a Beshir main carpet, with the same decoration, but on a smaller scale and allover the field.

Best regards,


Posted by Richard Larkin on 09-11-2006 11:25 AM:



Rich Larkin