Posted by R. John Howe on 09-06-2002 10:57 PM:

"SaLURE" "THALore"

Dear folks -

We've talked a little bit about the pronunctiation of some Turkmen words in other threads here.

Since, things have slowed a bit in our engsi conversation, this might be a place to mention two more English versions of Turkmen words that I, for one, appear to have been mispronouncing, as I followed what seems to be frequent practice among Turkmen collectors and authors.

The first of these words is spelled "Salor."

I was trained, as I entered the world of rugs to say "SaLURE," starting with a strong "S" as in "Sally" and with the accent on the second syllable which is pronounced like the word "lure" despite the "lor" spelling. While working with Chris Walter, who is fluent in Turkmen, he mentioned that he has never heard a Turkmen pronounce "Salor," as I did, that is "SaLURE." He said that Turkmen universely say "THALore," lisping the initial "S" and accenting the first syllable. I have not had a chance to ask Peter Andrews about this but I expect that Chris is correct. I think I do remember Peter saying once that some "S" sounds are lisped by Turkmen.

The second word, that seems frequently to be pronounced differently by most Turkmen than the most usual U.S. usage is "Tekke." We tend to say "TEKKey." Ms. Meredova, the Ersari lady, said that the correct Turkmen pronounciation of this word is "tekKAY." I have heard some American collectors use this latter pronounciation but it has always seemed affected to me. Somehow, inappropriately "French-i-fied" so to speak. Apparently, though, it is correct.

Now just to permit us to feel OK no matter how we pronounce these two words (and perhaps others still to be discovered), someone once asked why it is that particular Turkmen words are often pronounced so very differently even by different native-speaking Turkmen. Some Turkmen wag has responded, that it depends largely on the number of teeth your grandmother had when she taught you to speak.

THALore, THALore. I'll try to get it.


R. John Howe

Posted by Patrick Weiler on 09-07-2002 12:06 PM:



Funny that you mention Salor. It is one of several rug weaving groups with the L R word in them. L Ri Pambak in the Caucasus, SaL R in Turkmenistan, SaL R Khan Baluch.
The Lor, according to Brian MacDonalds book Tribal Rugs, migrated from Central Asia to Western Persia around 2000 BC. They must have left a few remnants of themselves scattered around the Middle East. Along with glimpses of their weaving history.

Patrick Weiler
P.S. And leave my poor, toothless grandmother out of this!

Posted by Steve Price on 09-07-2002 01:13 PM:

Hi Patrick,

You forgot to mention the homeland of the Lor groups, Florida, or the deplorable habit these people have of leaving their signature syllable lying around in so many places.


Steve Price

Posted by R. John Howe on 09-07-2002 06:53 PM:

Pat -

If your grandmother was really toothless you should be equipped with a fine lisp.

I can see that this thread is going to reach new levels of profundity.

Remember, Robert Pinner has already asked why it is that we would want to do the things we do here "in public."


R. John Howe