TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Jerry Silverman mailto:%20rug_books@silvrmn.com
Date  :  11-16-2001 on 03:55 a.m.
I've contacted many, many collectors in the last few months; but I'm pretty sure I've missed even more...possibly even one or two who are reading this. By now you should have a vague idea of what we're looking for - rare and beautiful, remember?

How 'bout using this forum for submitting one of your rugs for consideration? (For the purposes of this exhibition, Midwest Collections are those located between the Appalacian mountains on the east, the Rockies on the west, the border waters on the north, and the Gulf of Mexico on the south. If the land drains into the Mississippi River, that's good enough; just not the Left or Right Coast, okay?)

This little exercise will give us an opportunity to try out some of the formulae that have been proposed in other threads in this Salon. So far the discussions have all been a bit theoretical. Some actual examples are bound to be far more instructive.

And now that I think of it, there's no reason why we can't at least talk about rugs from collections outside the Midwest. We just can't accept them for the exhibition, no matter how rare or beautiful.

I know this is a little like putting one of your kids on the stage and asking the audience if he/she is good looking enough, but think of it as a contribution to the advancement/refinement of the aesthetics of rugdom.

Audaciously,

-Jerry-


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Eden Ethan mailto:%20tengfam@pacific.net.sg
Date  :  11-17-2001 on 09:45 a.m.
Dear Jerry,

Your suggestion is really interesting but it is also sort of intimidating for some. Especially for those who are interested in rugs and carpets, the art but have not come to the point of owning rare and beautiful pieces. But would it not be a wonderful session where we send in what we have (the best we can afford) and see what others have to say? For myself, I am dying to know what others think of one or two of my rugs...(not rare and beautiful but good enough for me...) In doing so, the "younger" and "eager" people can learn from their "mistakes" and try to look out for what is "rare and beautiful". I assume that this is along the philosophy of this forum which is to educate and exchange ideas so as to learn from one another and enrich what we know and in turn help us enjoy the art form.


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Jerry Silverman mailto:%20rug_books@silvrmn.com
Date  :  11-17-2001 on 01:54 p.m.
That, my friend, is what the "Show and Tell" board is for.

I don't know how long you've been dropping in on this site, but there have been many, many rugs discussed on the Show and Tell - some world-class, others less-so - some owned by noted collectors, others by complete novices. Each piece and each collector was treated with respect.

Go ahead and post your stuff. We'd enjoy it.

Cordially,

-Jerry-

P.S. And what about those of you with "rare and beautiful" rugs? I know you're out there. Cat got your tongue?


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey mailto:%20mamstey1@rochester.rr.com
Date  :  11-18-2001 on 09:31 p.m.
Hi guys,
I'm stepping up to the plate! This is a mid 19th c. Bergama with great colors, although this image subdues them somewhat. There is some expert reknotting in the pile which is still moderately high. Original ends ands edges. Comment away, Marvin

Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Steve Price mailto:%20sprice@hsc.vcu.edu
Date  :  11-18-2001 on 09:34 p.m.
Hi Marvin,

If I'm on the selection committee, this piece gets on the short list.

Regards,

Steve Price


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Filiberto Boncompagni mailto:%20filibert@go.com.jo
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 03:51 a.m.
I agree with Steve. That's a fine rug, Marvin. The age gives the colors an aura of nobleness. It looks like a beautiful watercolor painting on my monitor.
Speaking about nobleness, the central motif in the main border, bottom side, seems a coat-of-arms, doesnít it?
Great picture too.
Regards,

Filiberto


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Yon Bard mailto:%20doryon@rcn.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 09:47 a.m.
See? Saturated colors aren't everything.

Regards, Yon


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Marvin mailto:%20mamstey1@rochester.rr.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 09:58 a.m.
This is the rug that I had in mind when I said that. As i said to Filiberto, the watercolor analogy is pretty good, but I would carry it forward to a gouache, but not an oil or acrilyc. Best regadrs, Marvin

Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Patrick Weiler mailto:%20theweilers@home.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 10:04 a.m.
Marvin,
OK, it is a very nice rug. But, playing devils advocate, what makes it better enough to rate inclusion? Granted, it is not one of the couple of standard Bergama designs, the 2-4-2 medallion or the one with the skeletal white diamond in the field. So it is Different. Is it Rare?
The colors are a bit muted on my monitor, (gouache, indeed!) but that is typical of Bergama rugs, they don't whomp you with jarring contrasts.
So in that respect it is "relatively" Beautiful.
It is not a 24'x36' Ushak, so it would not compromise the space limitations (but a lot of people have never seen a 24'x36' Ushak in the flesh , so that might be a nice rug to get).
So does it, as Jerry asks, contribute to the advancement/refinement of the aesthetics of rugdom. Or, as some might say, does it just add to the general rugdumb?

Inquiringly,

Patrick Weiler


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Filiberto Boncompagni mailto:%20filibert@go.com.jo
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 11:10 a.m.
All right, all right. I said I PREFER saturated colors: this doesnít mean I like ONLY saturated colors. And it looks like a watercolor to me - but I have to say that I pushed my monitor luminosity to the maximum (itís quite blind to darks).
Regards,

Filiberto


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Steve Price mailto:%20sprice@hsc.vcu.edu
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 11:33 a.m.
Hi Patrick,

I said it would be on my short list if I were on the selection committee. You ask, why?

Here's my answer: I like it a lot.

Regards,

Steve Price


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Marvin mailto:%20mamstey1@rochester.rr.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 12:28 p.m.
Steve's answer is a straight forward as it gets and echoes mine. Rare? I don't think so; onene is published in a Bausback catalogue and another in a Herrmann catalogue.
Best regards,
Marvin

Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Jerry Silverman mailto:%20rug_books@silvrmn.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 03:08 p.m.
One in Bausback and one in Herrmann and yours...that's NOT rare?

If that's the standard our exhibition is going to have to live up to, am I ever in deep doo-doo.

Does "rare" have to mean "unique"?

By the way, Marvin, this rug would make our short list, too. Any chance of your
moving a couple hundred miles west?

-Jerry-


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey mailto:%20mamstey1@rochester.rr.com
Date  :  11-19-2001 on 07:03 p.m.
It's cold enough where I am, but Chicago's a nice place to visit.

Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  R. John Howe mailto:%20rjhowe@erols.com
Date  :  11-20-2001 on 06:04 a.m.
Dear folks -

Pat asks for a rationale for why Steve puts it on his short list and Steve responds that it's there because Steve "likes it."

I do too, but this does not advance much the sorts of things we usually strive for here.

Let me try to provide a somewhat more detail rationale for my own liking of this piece. First, I do think it's relatively rare and I think Jerry provides some evidence of that. So, the primary thing I have to explicate is why I think this piece is beautiful.

1. This is going to drive Yon Bard up the wall, but I find the weaver's use of color very harmonious. No individual color grabs my eye, although each contributes to the overall effect.

2. I find this rug VERY graphically attractive. The medallions have "punch" and the border is a well-disciplined version of a familiar one that has its own graphic impact. The border successfully "frames" the field without undermining the latter's central graphic role.

3. The drawing of all the elements is excellent and exhibits a nice clarity throughout.

4. The piece has for me what we rather spookily call "presence." It "speaks" to me. It's message reaches out and demands attention. The rug has a very real "dignity." And it projects as kind of definite calming, peaceful, graphic resolution. It seems comfortable and at ease.

Can this rug be critiqued? As a Turkmen collector, I'm always interested in preserving spaciousness and I think this piece would be even better than it is in aesthetic terms if it had fewer "filler" devices in the field. But this latter is just a quibble and doesn't in fact lead me to grade this piece down aesthetically at all.

If we justify our choices here primarily with the phrase "I like it," conversations are likely to be brief and not much will be learned about the "why" of our respective likings. Now perhaps it will be objected that I merely demonstrate how difficult it is to put our favorable judgements about pieces we "like" into words but I think there is often something to be learned from trying.

Nice rug, Marvin. I REALLY like it.

Regards,

R. John Howe


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Steve Price mailto:%20sprice@hsc.vcu.edu
Date  :  11-20-2001 on 06:35 a.m.
Hi People,

What John said about the rug. Me too.

Steve Price


Subject  :  Re:Care to step up to the plate?
Author  :  Jerry Silverman mailto:%20rug_books@silvrmn.com
Date  :  11-20-2001 on 01:46 p.m.
Okay. So we've established that Marvin's rug would clear the "rare and beautiful" standard.

That wasn't so painful, was it?

Now who else has a piece for us to consider? Think of it as an exercise in connoisseurship.

-Jerry-


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