TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Gubpa?
Author  :  Patrick Weiler mailto:%20theweilers@home.com
Date  :  07-15-2001 on 12:01 p.m.

This indeed is an unusual rug you have presented. It seems to have bits of everything from Lenkoran/Talish to Shahsavan to Kurdish. I would like to throw another curve at it; the "anchor" below the "egg palmettes" looks akin to the device at the top and bottom of the field of a type of Shirvan rugs shown in Bennett's "Caucasian" and called "Hexagon Column" rugs. He calls it a "Gubpa ornament". The description of this type of rug says: "These rugs almost all have dark blue fields with myriad filler ornaments including animals, birds and human figures." (that pretty much describes your Italian rug!)
This is not to suggest that your rug is, in fact, related at all to this northern Shirvan region type of rug, but to introduce another similarity to the confusion.

Patrick Weiler

Subject  :  Re:Gubpa?
Author  :  Deschuyteneer Daniel mailto:%20daniel-d@skynet.be
Date  :  07-16-2001 on 04:22 p.m.
Dear Patrick,
Your observation is pretty astute. I wouldn’t compare the serrated appendages below the “egg palmettes” to the gubpa ornament appearing at top and bottom of the field of so much Shirvan rugs. I think this small detail is more characteristic of a group of Kurdish rugs I discussed during my Salon number seven. I think that this small detail may be a bridge between the “flame like palmettes” of the Meyer Muller rug and the “egg palmettes” seen in the Italian rug. Notice also that such serrated appendages never appear below the “egg palmettes” of the early Caucasian blossom rugs.


Thanks for your interest,


Subject  :  Re:Gubpa?
Author  :  Wendel Swan mailto:%20wdswan@erols.com
Date  :  07-17-2001 on 06:30 a.m.
Dear Daniel and readers,

To Patrick’s question about the serrated appendages on the bottom of the egg palmettes in the Italian rug, Daniel has raised the possibility that they might relate to Kurdish rugs with a “flame palmette” rather than to the palmettes of the dragon rugs. To me the similar points of reference between the flame palmettes and the Italian palmettes are rather weak.

Furthermore, there is substantial room for disagreement with Daniel’s observation: “Notice also that such serrated appendages never appear below the ‘egg palmettes’ of the early Caucasian blossom rugs.”

As with many other designs, it is extremely difficult to trace the precise lineage of any motif, including those of the egg palmettes themselves in the dragon and blossom rugs.

The earliest Caucasian dragon carpets, such as the magnificent one in the Keir collection below, have relatively realistic dragons (having found their way from China through Persia?) as well as blossom forms that are connected by bands of different colors. It is possible that any one of the several blossoms in this rug (or other comparable rugs of the period) could have been the model for what we now call egg palmettes.

While we can’t know exactly how these elements evolved, it seems clear that it must have been along several lines. The following detail of plate 42 in McMullan’s book shows how one egg palmette variant retained a serrated pendant and how some of the blossoms probably had evolved into what we call a sunburst. This rug also illustrates how the elements in the later (if you want to call 18th Century later) blossom carpets tended to become separated and not bound together by bands, as had been the case in the earliest dragon carpets of the 17th Century.

Plate 69 in Orient Stars is of another early Caucasian carpet having an egg palmette with a serrated pendant. Here, we may compare that palmette with the Italian palmette. (Note: the OS 69 palmette doesn’t exist separately in this form. I composed the whole by mirroring two halves, but the whole must have existed contemporaneously.)

These two comparisons don’t prove a descent of the serrated appendage of the Italian rug, but they do illustrate that such a relationship is entirely possible and, in my view at least, is much more likely than any relationship to the flame palmettes.

Nearly all of the egg palmettes have some form of little hooks coming off the bottom. The serrated pendant that surrounds them on the Italian rug is likely derived from something like the serrated appendages on OS 69 or McMullan 42, which, in turn, MAY exist as vestiges of the bands on the early dragon rugs.


Subject  :  Re:Gubpa?
Author  :  Patrick Weiler mailto:%20theweilers@home.com
Date  :  07-17-2001 on 09:32 a.m.

Thank you for bringing the dragon rug element into this thread. I was searching for a dragon rug photo that would show this feature and you found one by mirroring a half!
This ties to Michael Wendorf's post noting " There we see a palmette flanked by its dragon supporters."
With this possible, if not necessarily likely, lineage, can the provenance and age of the Italian rug be any more easily determined?
We just need to determine precisely where the dragon carpets were made and we will have the answer

Patrick Weiler

Powered by UltraBoard 2000 <http://www.ub2k.com/>