TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Painting
Author  :  Vincent Keers
Date  :  10-13-2000 on 07:28 a.m.
Dear all, Giving the embroidery a place in history is a hazardous case. Before Richard's embroidery I knew very litle about the subject. It tickled my curiosity and I began reading, and looking for loose strings that I could grab, in getting a very limited picture of the subject. The thing that struck me most was Richard's information about the female input in the embroideries being very important. If that's the case, the embroideries can be more genuine then all the "Palace-carpets" together. In my opinion "men" seem to bend history the way it suits them best, and women don't. Women couldn't. Richard had a question about the cypresses. I do not know how the cypress started as decoration, but there are cypresses on 16th century Mughal paintings. In time, these cypresses are replaced by the painters with more Indian, field filling, floral designs. Akbar tried to construct "The Divine Belief", as he called it. It was a mix from Islam and Hindu, and Akbar, being raised at the Persian court, had a sort of liberal spirit. He was in dialog with western Jesuits also. So in this case, the Art of Painting made use of Persian design and later on created a more Indian, local Mughal style. The colors: In painting it's: yellow, green, blue and red. It's the same with the colors found on the old embroideries. On the image of the embroidery, it looks as if there are softer colors. The design: The field is, I understood, unique. The tiles do give me an earthly feeling, a feet on the ground perspective. This isn't a Prayer-rug style of handling the design in an Islamic tradition. The Ottomans: I can't find any real substantial influence on the art of painting in India or Persia. The Islam had it's problems with the art of painting. The Islam influence has been absorbed in the Mughal empires, but substantial schools of the art of painting, didn't bother, because they were the result of local, easily protected kingdoms. I hope my story will tickle intrested in investigating the art of painting. Malvaschool: Female in adoration in front of the chapel of Shiva. Shiva is the god of destruction (death/cypresses) and because of this a creator. Because he destroys in order to create, he's also a fertiliser. So, what did I come up with: -The tile-like design of the dark blue flowers look like, pomengrate-apples. -The tile-like field, a putting things in perspective way of design. A very common way of design in Indian painting to this day. -The phallus symbol. -The cypresses. -The curtains/the niche not being an arch. -The colors. Pink as extra? My impression (without handling, smelling, eating, touching) the embroidery is: 19th century, female art, being more rooted in the local Indian art tradition. Not Mughal, not Ottoman. But I'm sure, a lot of you can tackle my findings. Please do so. Because if nobody investigates, we'll be still out in the dark at the end of this salon. An opportunity missed. Best regards, Vincent

Subject  :  RE:Painting
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  10-13-2000 on 09:55 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Vincent, Thanks for your posting, which is very thought provoking. One of your sentences, although outside the mainstream of the discussion, caught my attention: My impression (without handling, smelling, eating, touching) the embroidery... I handle, touch and sometimes even smell textiles, as you do, but I've never eaten one. Are they lekkert? Regards, Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Painting
Author  :  Vincent Keers
Date  :  10-13-2000 on 10:28 a.m.
Dear Steve, Lekker? It's "vies", disgusting, but it goes with the job. What you are is what you eat? Sometimes customers ask me: "Can't you take anything off?" A Dutch way of asking for a lower price, I put my teeth in the rug and answer: "No, this doesn't work, it's a good quality!" Best regards, Vincent.

Subject  :  RE:Painting
Author  :  Richard+Farber
Date  :  10-13-2000 on 11:18 a.m.
Dear Salon Participants Pink is a common color in Ottoman embroidery. I don't know enough about stitches but early Mughal embroidery, to my limited knowlege uses a very fine chain stitch. This piece uses a darning stich which is not aligned, also reminiscent of the long and short satin stich. Not even the single lines seperating the guards and the borders look like a chain stitch. bye for now Richard for those who have the good fortune to attend the rug conference, ENJOY!!!!

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