TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-13-2000 on 08:48 p.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Fellow Neurotics, Stephen Louw's essay mentions ok-bash as being quivers, perhaps with other uses as well. With my apologies to Yon Bard and anyone else who's tired of hearing this, here I go again. The words ok and bash mean arrow and cap or head cover, respectively. These things certainly look like the sort of bag that might have been a quiver. So the word and the function match up perfectly. Problem is, there's no documentation that these were used as quivers, and lots of documentation that they covered the ends of tent struts during processions and migrations. How, then did they get that name? Funny you should ask. According to Peter and Mugul Andrews, who have done pretty extensive field work among the Turkmen, the people who made and used the item called them uuk-bash, the word uuk meaning tent strut. The transformation to the commonly used term is easy to imagine. What's the bottom line here? I don't think the rug world is about to change the word it uses at this point, ok-bash is too firmly embedded. On the other hand, we should recognize that it is not a Turkmen term, at least not for these things, but an English word derived from a misunderstanding of a Turkmen one. And, as a courtesy to Peter and Mugul Andrews, I'd ask that it not be used around him. He's much offended by this western degeneration of the language of a people we claim to be trying to understand. Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  +Kenneth Thompson+
Date  :  02-14-2000 on 08:04 a.m.
wkthompson@aol.com Dear Steve--A pedantic footnote on ok bash. In Turkish, "ok" is indeed arrow, but it is also any sort of long pole or beam. So your tent strut would fall into the category. Bash ("head" or "top") has a hundred different applications, but strut cover, or end cover, certainly makes sense. Uuk is most likely the same word in a different alphabet and pronunciation, but I don't have a Turkmen dictionary. Just to add to any possible confusion, in old (arabic script) Turkish, "o" and "u" and "w" share the same letter, so you could transliterate "ok" as "uk". I guess that either one would be o.k. Kenneth

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-14-2000 on 08:51 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Kenneth, Thanks for the information. I don't speak Turkmen, nor have I any direct experience among them. My source on all of this is Peter Andrews, who loudly shouts "UUK-BASH" ("uuk" uses the vowel sound of "school") upon hearing anyone say "ok-bash". Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  02-14-2000 on 10:31 a.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Actually, there is an example of words to describe Turkoman objects changing. Before asmalyk, there was Osmaldook (or some similar spelling); therefore, it is possible to see "Ok" change to "Uuk". However, there is a more cogent reason for leaving everything alone. It is still speculation to say that these items were tent pole covers. No one, to my knowledge, has seen them in action. I've even heard one knowledgeable person call them water bottle covers as a result of the usual zig-zag design on many of them signifying water in far Eastern art. Regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Patrick Weiler
Date  :  02-15-2000 on 11:19 p.m.
Now, it may seem incidental what we call these weavings, but it may also be akin to the difference between "ick" and "eek" in American, one meaning disgust and the other meaning alarm. A favored reference of mine is Eiland. The most recent edition (Jr. and III, 1998) says, on p. 10, "As for the multitude of terms for minor Turkmen design motifs and woven artifacts, there is a steady change in fashion from year to year. Thus "osmulduk" has changed to "asmalyk" and there has recently been a claim that the small bag previously called an "ok bash" should now be called an "ook bash"." The authors go on, on p. 217, to say (in reference to, among other weavings a "Yomut ok bash") "There are a variety of small bags, often described by some possible function. Some are alleged to be for tent stakes, weaving implements, covers for the ends of tent poles, animal feed, quivers for arrows, and countless other uses. Many of these appear to be Yomut work and quite possibly had multiple uses." I say, ok, ook, ick, eek, as long as there is a bash! Patrick Weiler

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 06:22 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear People, First, I think Marvin's assertion that nobody has seen an uuk bash used as a tent strut cover is incorrect. Jon Thompson claims to have seen and photographed this. The fact that the photos are unpublished doesn't make me skeptical about Thompson's claim at all. I'm quite sure Peter Andrews says he has seen this, too. Perhaps George O'Bannon, if he's tuned in, can amplify on this pooint. Second, osmolduk, if I am not mistaken, is the German transliteration of the Turkmen word that became asmalyk in English. I don't know where the "d" went in the transfer to English, but it may be that in Turkmen it is a very soft "d", a sound that occurs in a number of languages but not commonly in English. Unlike English, German (like most languages) uses phonetic spelling, and to begin the word with an "a" in German would have made the first syllable sound very different. Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Yon Bard
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 09:34 a.m.
Steve, I am sorry, but the closest vowel sound in German to our 'A' in 'Asmalyk' is 'A'. The 'O' doesn't come close. As for transliteration of foreign names, just compare spellings of the same names in the London and NY Sotheby's catalogs to see that it's all in the ear of the listener, or perhaps just a case of chacun a son gout. Regards, Yon

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 10:19 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Yon, You know how much I hate being wrong! Regards, Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Michael Wendorf
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 12:30 p.m.
Gentle Readers: While you are on the subject, whatever became of those Ogurjalis? uuk okk -Michael

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 04:28 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com I am skeptical! How many times have we heard all kinds of claims about rug use, only to have new data shoot the old thoughts down. As they say in Missouri, show me a picture!!! Regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-16-2000 on 08:08 p.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Marvin, Like you, I tend to be skeptical about many rug claims. But Jon Thompson is a respected person in the field, and, more important, an academic anthropologist who has done field work among the Turkmen. When he says he has seen these things, I default to belief that he's telling the truth. Likewise, he says he has photos that he will publish at an opportune time, so I believe this as well. Why should he lie about such a thing? And since my recollection is that Peter Andrews (who has also done Turkmen field work) says that he's seen this, too, my skepticism just about vanishes. If Jon were a participant in this forum, I'd respectfully ask that he post a photo. But, if he's tuned in to our station, he's maintained radio silence so far. So there's little point to our insisting that he put a photo up; he probably can't hear us. The only one of our contributors that I know has spent time with Turkmen is George O'Bannon, and I don't know if he's in town and looking in on this thread. He refers to ok bash as tent strut covers in his published articles and books, although I can't say that I have ever seen him assert that he has firsthand observations to go on. Regards, Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 06:18 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear People, We haven't heard from George O'Bannon on this, so I assume he's traveling or otherwise engaged. But I did browse through some of his writings last night, and he expresses some question about the tent strut cover use of ok bash, in the caption to the last piece in Vanishing Jewels. In Moshkova's book (which he edited and annotated), the item is described as a tent strut cover, and he appends no commentary to this. Moshkova is another person who did field work among the Turkmen, but I don't know whether she claims to have seen ok bash in use. Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  +Kenneth Thompson+
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 02:10 p.m.
wkthompson@aol.com Dear all, Please forgive what may appear to be a naive observation. As a newcomer to the world of Turkmen weavings, I am surprised by how little is known about the actual--as opposed to the presumed--uses of the ensi, the kapunuk, and the ok bash. From the literature, I gather that no one has actually seen or photographed an ensi covering a tent entrance, or a kapunuk surrounding the same, or an ok bash containing either arrows or covering the ends of struts. That may only mean that they were all special items reserved for ceremonial occasions that outsiders might not usually attend. Or it could mean that they had different uses that we are not aware of. But there are enough of them extant for them to have had a function that was important to those who wove them. The "ok bash" shaped weaving seems ideal for storing anything with a long shaft, not only arrows. In Turkey, there apparently are variants with the same rough shape but specialized names. The 1976(?) Belkis Acar book on Kilims has a photograph of a Turkish "yuruk" (possibly Turkmen) woman with a large ok bash-shaped bag with spindles in it. I don't have the book at hand, but I think the Turkish word for it is "iglik" (pronounced "ee-lick".) And I have seen a photo of the four-chambered version holding spoons ("kashiklik"). Is "ok bash", then merely, a generic word for many different specialized long bags? Do ensis do other things except cover doors? And kapunuks? I would be interested in what those of you who know this topic well have to say. Regards, Kenneth

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 03:02 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com As far as engsis are concerned, there are published photos of them in use. However, the only photos I have seen (and I apologize for not having the reference at hand) of these in action are those made of felt, which makes more sense than a standard wool rug because it is denser and keeps the wind and cold out of the yurt. Regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 03:06 p.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Kenneth, The fact that there are no published photos of particular items being used in particular ways is not, in my mind, of great importance. After all, I have hundreds of pictures of things I've taken in my travels, but they don't find their way into print, and I'm sure the same is true of pictures taken (or drawn) by pre-20th century travelers to western and central Asia. As for the ensi, there is a sketch of a Turkmen tent with a rug for a door that was included in a letter from Sir Edward Durrand to his daughter in 1885, and I remember seeing a 19th century drawing of a Turkmen tent with a door rug elevated on poles to form a canopy, although I don't recall where. I don't see what a kapunuk could be used for except a door surround, although it is conceivable that it was used in conjunction with something else for some other function. The spindle bag is a particularly interesting example. I think the word for which you were searching is igselik, or something similar to that. It is a bag about 18" x 9", open at the top (one narrow end). The spoon bag, or chemche torba (chemche = spoon; torba = bag) is, as nearly as I can tell, identical in every way. I have never seen any justification for giving these different names, although there are books showing what are purported to be each type on the same page! My guess is that the situation is not unlike the two drawers at the top of my bureau. One is my socks drawer, the other is my underwear drawer. There is no difference between them except for the contents. But if I was visited by an anthropologist and he pointed to the one on the left and asked me what it was, I'd answer "socks drawer". If I was visited by another antrhopologist and asked what the one on the right was, I'd answer "underwear drawer". And perhaps this would lead to a debate some day about exactly how to tell one from the other. I dealt with this matter in a article in HALI awhile ago (No. 69, p. 77), and proposed that these things just be called "portrait format bags". The rug world promptly consigned this suggestion to the dust bin, where it lies quietly except for occasions like this one. Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  +Kenneth Thompson+
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 05:45 p.m.
wkthompson@aol.com Dear Steve and Marvin Thanks for the information. It adds to my knowledge. Marvin, thank you for mentioning the felt ensis. I should have been more specific and said pile ensis. I have seen some photos of felt ensis and a sketch in Thompson/Mackie book, but I was thinking of what used to be called a hatchli in Turkey in the '70's, was then described as a prayer rug, and subsequently metamorphosed into an ensi. We often speculate about the ensis' use, since we have a nice Tekke ensi (animals & trees just above the elem) hanging over our bed. It came from a cousin who had been the keeper of textiles in the Victoria and Albert in the '60s and early '70s and who had it on his study wall for meditative purposes. It certainly does give the impression of a symbolic doorway into another world. But is definitely not an outdoor piece. Do any travel accounts mention pile ensis, either suspended inside or outside the yurt/tent? Steve, your ok bash/sock bash theory makes sense. Igselik sounds right. And thanks for Chemche torba. A chemche (ladle) is bigger than a kashik (spoon). As for a Kapunuk, it is such an obvious shape that it is hard to think of any other function. (An internet auction site has a photo of a modern kapunuk displayed convincingly inside a room, with blue beaded tassels to brush away the evil eye from anyone who passes under it). So it might have served some ceremonial apotropaic function.) Thanks again for patient answers to some probably often asked questions. Regards, Kenneth

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Christoph Huber
Date  :  02-17-2000 on 06:20 p.m.
huber-ch@pilatusnet.ch Dear all I canít solve the ok/uuk-bash problem, but I would like to share with you a picture which I found in a book preview. If Iím correct both, the bullock or yak and the camel are each carrying the centrepiece of a yurt dome and bundles of yurt poles. The poles carried by the bullock are rather loose but those on the camel are well tied together and their ends seem to stick into something similar to an ok-bash. The picture isnít as detailed to make me really sure about my interpretation but it may points to a certain direction until the publication of relevant photos. Regards, Christoph

Subject  :  RE: Saryk Ensi Photographed in Use
Author  :  R. John Howe
Date  :  02-18-2000 on 09:15 a.m.
Hi Ken - I am going back here to your question about the fact that although there seems general agreement that there were ensi format rugs that were actually used by the Turkmen as door coverings or decorations, there has also been similar agreement that no one had ever photographed one in use. The first indication that I have seen that moves in the other direction is on page 29 of the recently published Pinner and Eiland catalog on the Wiedersperg collection. They say in their discussion of a Saryk ensi: ...It is not surprising that until the 1960s there was disagreement about whether weavings such as that shown in Plate 7 (ed. a Saryk ensi)were made as decorative tent door curtains, as had been reported by travelers, or as prayer rugs. The adherents of the door theory found their view confirmed by a long-forgotten newspaper picture, published in 1885 and rediscovered by Neil Moran in 1985, that showed a Saryk ensi on a tent door. The newspaper reference is given but not the photo. The reference is: "The Khan's Kibitka," Illustrated London News, 28 March 1985, 318. In a later discussion of Tekke ensis on page 40 of this same catalog, Pinner and Eiland seem to grant room for speculation that ensis (many have arches toward the top) might also subsequently have been used as prayer rugs. One reason they give for not ruling out this possibility is that many old ensis are found in quite good condition, suggesting that they were not hung on doors for extended periods. So it is possible that if they were displayed on doors, say, primarily on special occasions but but not daily, they would have been available for other uses. This is, I think, a more hospital treatment of the "ensi as prayer rug" thesis than I have seen elsewhere in the recent literature on Turkmen weaving. Regards, R. John Howe

Subject  :  Old paintings of encampments
Author  :  Kenneth Thompson
Date  :  02-18-2000 on 10:28 a.m.
WKThompson@aol.com After Marvin Amstey mentioned sketches of the felt door coverings of yurts, I found a drawing of a Mongolian festival in a book on Mongolian "Zurag" painting printed in Ulan Baataar in 1986. I scanned a couple of excerpts from a turn of the 19th century example. Although these are Mongolian "gers" and not Turkmen yurts, I thought they were sufficiently analogous to be of interest. One can not only see stiff felt door coverings rolled up, but a bow and arrows in a quiver (definitely not an ok bash) on one ger/yurt and rugs drying/air on top of another. Best regards, Kenneth

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  02-18-2000 on 04:23 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Dear Christoph, Thanks for the drawing. It reminded me about another argument against the "ok bash" being a strut pole cover. I've assembled two Turkoman yurts for two exhibits so I am familiar with the poles, roof, sides, etc. If a bundle made up of half of the poles are wrapped together, the resulting diameter is far too large for the decorative "ok bashes" that I have seen and handled. One would have to be 10-15 inches in diameter to serve as a cover. Has anyone seen any this big? I will admit, however, that the common decorative ones will cover 4-6 poles and still could be used for small bundles. Best regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:Uuk-bash: Holders of Tent Poles or Teacup?
Author  :  R. John Howe
Date  :  02-18-2000 on 10:30 p.m.
Dear folks - Marvin makes a good point, when he indicates that pieces that take the "uuk-bash" format (I will follow Peter Andrews here, who seems to do his homework) do often seem to be rather small to cover many tent poles. Marvin estimates from his own work with the poles of two tents that a minimum 10"-15" diameter opening at the top would be required to cover half the tent poles in a Turkmen tent. Well, a number of the Turkmen bags of this format meet this requirement. Elena Tzareva shows a Yomud as Plate 82 in her "Rugs and Carpets of Central Asia" that seems to be almost exactly 15 inches wide at the top. She calls it an "igsalik" which her glossary translates as a "spindle bag." Thompson and Mackie show what I have been told is the only known uuk-bash that uses the "bird on a pole" design in the field, on page 56 of their Turkmen catalog. It measures only 10 1/2 inches at the top. They label it a "strut pole cover" without qualification. I own a Central Asian bag that has this format that is likley Uzbek which is approximately 12 inches wide at the top. Tzareva also shows an Uzbek bag of this format that is 13 inches wide at the top and designates it a "chinakap," saying that it was used to carry teacups. I once said to her in public that I had tried to follow her expertise in this regard but had been repeatedly shouted down by experienced folks whenever I did. She nodded, making me think that she had had similar experiences. I tried briefly to use the data in Peter Andrews' first two volumes of his work "Nomad Tent Types in the Middle East" to see if I could calculate what size bag would be required for half the tent struts in a Turkmen tent. Andrews describes a "Turkmen Tent, Yomut and Goklen." Maybe someone else can use this data with more certainty than I. First he says that there are about 60 struts in the most frequent tent of this type. So each bundle would have 30 struts. Next, he seems to say that struts are squarish and tend to have a cross-section size of 25X25 millimeters(about one squareinch) but are tapered at the ends to about 10X10millimeters. If this is so it would seem that 30 struts layed together would compose a rectangle a with five struts on one side and six on the other. This rectangle would thus measure 25mmX5 or 125mm on one side and 25mmX6 or 150mm on the other. Since a millimeter is .0394 inches, this rectangle would seem to have been about 5 inches on the short side (125mmX.0394=4.925) and about six inches on the long side (150mmX.0394=5.91). This squarish shape would seem to be able to fit into the opening of a bag that was 10-15 inches in diameter. (It could be that I've misread Andrews dimensions or that I've made errors in calculation but Andrews' data means that we do not have to guess about whether 30 tent struts would fit into the bags we have, we can calculate it.) One last thing: despite our ability to calculate what is possible, it may still be well to notice something John Wertime (who unhesitatingly said that my piece was a tent pole cover)often suggests about questions of bag use. He points out that many bags had multiple uses and so it is hard to say for sure what was the actual case with a particular piece. This may be the source of some of the seeming inconsistency in the literature. Regards, R. John Howe

Subject  :  RE:Ok-bash or Uuk-bash?
Author  :  Yon Bard
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 10:10 a.m.
John, if a pole has a cross section of one square inch, then 30 of them require 30 square inches. My okbash (of fairly typical size) has a diameter of about 7 inches, i.e. a radius of 3.5. Using the formula pi times r squared, we get an area of 38 square inches, so I beleive we have a good fit here. The hypothesis that an ok-bash was used to hold half the poles for one yurt is not refuted by this data. Regards, Yon

Subject  :  Bag identifications in Tzareva's book
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 10:50 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear John, You mention the names given to bags in Tzareva's book. Either everyone else in the world is mistaken, or the book has what may be Rugdom's largest collection of errors betwen two covers. Two items of the type almost universally referred to as ok bash are called igsalik (spindle bag); what looks to be a typical spindle or spoon bag is labeled aina khalta (mirror bag). There are many other similar unconventional identifications in the book, and my inclination is to suspect that it, rather than all other sources, is incorrect. Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Yon Bard
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 12:01 p.m.
Steve, applying the elitist adage that if enough people believe in something it must be wrong, perhaps one should accept Tsarevas nomenclature after all. Regards, Yon

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 12:27 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Yon, your math is impeccable. However, the poles are tapered as John notes and would require a bag bigger than 7 in. in diameter to go up even 4 or 5 in. on the straight ends. Regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Jerry Silverman
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 03:39 p.m.
A simple experiment will help define the problem of how tightly one can pack sticks with tapering ends. Grab a handful of chopsticks. Squeeze them tightly. You will immediately see that it is the diameter of the sticks at their thickest point that determines the size of the cover that can enclose their ends - not the diameter at their thinnest point. Were the ends gathered tightly together the sticks would splay out in a completely unmanageable fashion. -Jerry- a.k.a. Mr. Science

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  David Connolly
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 04:12 p.m.
Backtrack@archaeo.freeserve.co.uk Dear all, I read this thread with interest. I spent 4 months working at the city site of Merv (near modern Mary) in 1995. There I lived with the Turkomens and was lucky enough to even help put up a yurt...what a pain!!! However the bundles of poles were not all held together in one bundle. they were divided as loads...so I hope that solves the mathematical problem of how many poles fit into a bag. I even ended up dressing in local clothes and enjoying (I think) I fine diet of shalik (burned chucks of meat) and vodka!! David

Subject  :  RE: Putting Up a Tellis Tent
Author  :  R. John Howe
Date  :  02-19-2000 on 10:53 p.m.
Hi David - One possible explanation of the apparent difficulty you and your hosts experienced putting up a Turkmen trellis tent is that sex-specific skills may be involved. The literature seems often to suggest that such tents were routinely put up and taken down in a relatively short time by two women. Probably too big a job for a small group of men. By the way, everyone will have noticed that Jerry's correct to say that one has to calculate the tent pole bundle volume using the widest diameter of the pole (1 square inch). That's what both Yon and I did, so our calculations do seem to take in to consideration this aspect of the data Andrews provides. Regards, R. John Howe

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  David connolly
Date  :  02-20-2000 on 06:56 p.m.
Dear John, How right you might be... about sex specific problems, especially when a small group of men have consumed a large crate of vodka. It meant having erect what seemed like two yurts!! By the way I expect the Turkmens were discussing how many pencils would fit into a pencil case in The US. :) David

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  R. John Howe
Date  :  02-21-2000 on 08:41 a.m.
Hi David - Yes, our conversations would no doubt look very strange to the members of the societies in which the weavings we collect and try to study were made. There is a wonderful piece of sociology from the 60s called "Change at Shebika." A group of French socioligists lived for a time in a remote North African village and tried to document their way of life from a "verstehen" perspective. They continually got blank stares from the villagers in reponse to many of their questions. (e.g., Why do you cut the goat's throat in that precise manner?) There is so much we do not know (including often what would be the appropriate questions to ask)and often "progress" is defined by our having to give up some item of false knowledge to which we are attached. And although the uuk-bash volume calculations no doubt look humorous, they are likely an advance on our former "yes, it is large enough," "no, it isn't" conversations. I recently ran into a post card, at the National Geographic headquarters here, of members of a family in Outer Mongolia seated in a trellis tent. There was a television set in this tent. I sent this card to a friend, saying, that while I wanted to talk to the Mongolians about what a "Mongolian rug" might look like (there is a debate about whether there are any such), these folks wanted only to talk about how they might improve poor TV reception in a trellis tent. Different societies attempting to mine each other's cultural knowledge for their own purposes. Regards, John Howe

Subject  :  RE:Does it matter? Why?
Author  :  Kenneth Thompson
Date  :  02-21-2000 on 10:48 a.m.
wkthompson@aol.com Here is the photo of the Turkish spindle bag (holding spindles) that I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread. The picture is from a book on kilims and flatweaves by Belkis Acar and published in Turkey in 1975 by the Akbank. As you can see it is perfectly suited to its function, though it could also hold any spoon-like implement with a long handle. The text doesn't give it a name, but mentions that the woman in the photo (suppressed to save space) is using an ig, pronounced "eeee". Regards, Kenneth

Powered by UltraBoard 2000 <http://www.ub2k.com/>