TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  A Top Ten
Author  :  Milton Cater
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 09:53 a.m.
Dear Mr. Silverman,
You have caused quite a stir with this one. I have now lost friends, and discovered an outbreak of ARO (Advanced Rug Obstinacy). Thanks!
Although you were not looking for a full 10 nomination here are 10 anyway, chosen by myself and others. I have tried to find and quote images in Hali on the presumption one can find a Hali subscriber (and good pics) easier than a particular publication or the web. Older Hali images included for you youngsters. In no particular order:-
Vote with Patrick - the Berlin Dragon and Phoenix (count those votes)
Vote with Mike - The Abadjian Star Kazak Image Hali49 p.15 (ditto)
The Salting Carpet - There are Kerman Vases, the Ardebil etc. but for Persian classics it's got it all in only 5ft5insx7ft7ins Image Hali77 p.81
Moghul Carpet - Captures the distinctive drawing, fine wool of it's type. Image Hali95 p.98
Salor Chuval - Only one Turkoman in the top 10? There are better than this but this still makes it anyway! Peter Hoffmeister, Turkoman Carpets in Franconia No.58


The Dunn Ningxia Carpet - I feel this intense decorativeness, like much of Chinese and Japanese art to be simply deracinated but someone wanted it in.


Image Hali49 before p.1
East Anatolian Kelim Fragment defines the form as much as any other.

Hali50 p.119
The Hulse Carpet - The best European, really?

Hali60 p.85
Early Anatolian Rug - One could fill the top ten with Seljuqs - Image Hali74 Cover (Alexander Coll.)
Yarkand Carpet has achieved the Zenith


Hali53 p.205
Anyone else to register a vote?

Subject  :  RE:A Top Ten
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 10:27 a.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Milton's list is a good one. My own substitutions for a few of his picks would be a Salor chuval purchased by Jon Thompson at a Sotheby sale years ago and whose image I have not found elsewhere. I would also substitute the Ballard Arabatchi for the kilim fragment. I don't think any of us would disagree with the Berlin rug - also Patrick's choice - or the Salting carpet or the Star Kazak. Best regards, Marvin

Subject  :  Link to Milton Cater's Top Ten
Author  :  Steve+Price
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 10:46 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Folks, Here is a link to Milton Cater's top ten list. This, in turn, has links to images of all of them. http://www.bangalow.com/rugs/a_top_ten.htm And to Milton: THANKS Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:Another substitution
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 11:06 a.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com I forgot one other substitute to replace Milton's Hereke rug. The prayer rug on the dust jacket of the translation of Bode and Kuhnel's book is an Anatolian rug which is clearly the precursor of the Hereke rug: big, bold, spacious, dramatic color contrasts. Regards, Marvin

Subject  :  Deracinated?
Author  :  Steve+Price
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 02:47 p.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Milton, With regard to the Ningxia in your nominations for the top 10, you state, The Dunn Ningxia Carpet - I feel this intense decorativeness, like much of Chinese and Japanese art to be simply deracinated but someone wanted it in. I take it that you don't like it much; neither do I. But, as someone not fluent in Australian, what does deracinated mean? Regards, Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:A Top Ten
Author  :  Marvin+Amstey
Date  :  10-14-1999 on 04:53 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com From Webster's dictionary deracinated means to uproot or eradicate. Probably means the same thing in Australia. As to the rug, I think it is great; one of the simplest, yet complex Chinese rug I have ever seen. THAT'S WHAT MAKES HORSERACES. Best regards, Marvin

Subject  :  RE:A Top Ten
Author  :  Steve Price
Date  :  10-15-1999 on 10:49 a.m.
sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Marvin, I don't respond to Chinese rugs. It isn't a moral issue, they just don't appeal to me. Perhaps I will eventually develop an understanding and appreciation of them. And thanks for the definition of deracinated. Today I know something I didn't know yesterday (but will I still know it tomorrow?). Regards, Steve Price

Subject  :  RE:A Top Ten
Author  :  Milton Cater
Date  :  10-16-1999 on 02:11 p.m.
rugs@bangalow.com Dear Steve, About deracinated. I have heard it often in rug circles, and it helps. The sense is over-dried, where the process of reduction has not only removed all unnecessary oxygen but all natural content leaving an inert object. Less can be more. Deracinated for me helps explain the great differences in beauty among plain-field kelims, soffre, simple gabbehs, etc., that may, at first sight, appear similar, as well as Kansu carpets, Ningxia earth-seats etc. A classic case is the chequerboard Tibetan. I saw one recently that matched it's cadaverous owner! Thanks for your time, Milton

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