Posted by Michael Wendorf on August 08, 1999 at 19:53:44:
In Reply to: Re: Rug 4 Only posted by Mike Tschebull on August 08, 1999 at 13:24:40:
: : Dear John,
: : Thanks for your kind and always interesting comments.
: : I share your thoughts. This rug isn't Turkmen and I have never thought it could be!
: : My feeling is only that these bag faces have a central medallion which is widely used among "Turkic tribes" and must therefore have an old "Oguz Turkmen" ancestry.
: : After having read back my comments concerning these bag faces, I see I have forgotten to make my own attribution.
: : My thoughts are that it is a North West Persian or a Transcaucasian bag face.
: : I don't think it is South Persian and at least a Gashgai, Kamseh or Afshar attibution may be easily refuted. So if it was South Persian to which tribe are you thinking?
: : Cordially,
: : Daniel
: These two good looking khorjin faces seem to be from the same pair of double bags. Are they, indeed? The octagonal medallions in yours, and the similar bag medallions you illustrate, look like “Holbein” medallions, and the Eiland piece, in fact, has vestiges of the “endless knot” or “turret” design around its periphery (transTurkic design - see “Salor” guls for another comparison) as evidence of the common design source. This octagonal red medallion, but with a serrated ivory or yellow surround, representing the “turrets”, is a usual motif in old (19th cent.) Qarajeh kennereh, and is reproduced almost exactly in one early bagface that I know. The pile-woven kennereh from Qarajeh have the same colors, color use, and border conventions as your pieces, although the older kennereh almost always have all-wool foundations. Another design for pile bagfaces from the same area - also red on dark blue - is an eight-lobed medallion (See Hali 54, p 183). The small triangles at the edge of the red field in your medallions probably represent omitted elements.The weaver was probably a Turkicized Kurd, living in Qarajeh or another closeby village in eastern Azarbayjan, probably at the end of the last century. Cotton warps are a tip-off for dating small pieces from that area. A more complex piece of the same type, with a slightly higher knot count, has wool warps and cotton wefts. A pair of later bagfaces using the same field motif was sold in Skinner last spring. In general, Azarbayjani pile khorjin are not common, and seem to derive their (single) medallions from kennereh, nomad sumakh bags (rarely), and carpet motives. It is not surprising that the bag motif would show up on a Caucasian rug. Mike
Mike seems to sum this one up rather nicely. For anyone who attended the last ACOR in Denver, you may recall that the Portland, Oregon dealer Mark Santos had an example labelled Shahsevan on dealer's row. My recollection is that it was wool pile on wool warps and cotton weft though it is possible I have this reversed. The German dealer Frauenknecht also advertised a bag face in the not too distant past and the former Michael Andrews marketed yet another about three years ago. All of these pieces were marketed as Shahsevan. That label has never fit well in my mind quite aside from any debate about whether the Shahsevan wove in pile. Qarajeh seems to fit more nicely based on structure and handle though I do not understand why Mike believes by Turkicized Kurd hands. Nothing about the weavings speak to me as of Kurdish manufacture though Kurds doubtless inhabited and wove in the area and though they also adopted Holbein like medallions with vestiges of the endless knot, albeit much more freely and loosely.
Thank you. Michael W.
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