Re: some questions

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Posted by Christoph Huber on June 25, 1999 at 16:52:32:

In Reply to: Re: some questions posted by Wendel Swan on June 25, 1999 at 06:32:16:

Dear Wendel
I have to say that I never was really happy in assuming a direct lineage between Timurid carpets and Turkmen carpets. But on the other hand I have as well to admit that I'm fascinated by some of the observations (and conclusions) published by such authorities as R. Pinner and M. Franses in their article in "Turkoman Studies" or by M. L. Eiland in "Tribal Visions".
At the beginning of my interest in carpets, being about 14 years old, I "knew" that Turkmen carpets are something very special and that they are very, very distinct from any other group of carpets. I still hold to the first half of my "knowledge" but the second part fades away with almost every carpet book I leaf through. And now I really don't know (anymore) how the relations between the Turkmen carpets and those of other peoples have to be seen. This has caused me to formulate the question in my last post. I'm still surprised to see carpets, which I thought to come from the 19th, maybe 18th century, to be (chronologically) very much nearer to the "Timurid" carpets then I was aware of before. Another such new nearness was in my mind established with the early Animal carpets, for which with Merw as a possible place of manufacture a geographical "link" already was suggested. But I don't know what to do with this "insights" and my vague ideas about the relations between different groups of carpets are again disturbed. That's not bad, but where are the new models which could help to recognise more of the whole pattern?
Suggesting to test Caucasian carpets I thought about Dragon carpets and was partly inspired by the recent article Afshan by M. L. Eiland, Jr. published in HALI. He is very cautious in establishing a chronology although having much more clues then those available in the field of Turkmen weavings. I feel a little bit uncomfortable to see the Turkmen 14C dates without having much of an alternative possibility for the dating. And with saying this, I really don't want to indicate that I distrust in these 14C results.
I just know that I don't know anything - and I don't want to have to believe (especially not a single source and without any "interdisciplinary" confirmation.)
P.S.: I got a hint to an interesting paper by Tom Cole about dating Turkmen rugs which can be read at: on the discussion part under the heading of carpets.

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