Posted by Jerry Silverman on March 02, 1999 at 01:43:27:
In Reply to: Re: Artistic Growths Possible by Computerized Society? posted by Michael Wendorf on March 01, 1999 at 22:33:01:
: : : Dear Jerry and All,
: : : [I might not be able to follow this discussion because of my English, the philosophical and technical terms used due to the character of the topic and Jerry's American accent. You might have covered what I am saying now. If so, I apologize in advance.]
: : : I think that particularly by means of the rugs and the webs where visual esthetic is among the most important criteria, the science and technology (leaded by the westerners in the last centuries) and the art, I imply the rug here, (leaded by the easterners more in the last c) are being Hand in Hand. This progress would be much faster if the people give the credits to the creators of real science and real art instead of supporting tasteless quick profits.
: : : 1. Yes Jerry. I think one can be succesful to create a desired rug (also other things) ordered by a house decorator or by person via computer communications. Such rugs which will be made by a group study may even be quite artistic rugs. But the reailty says that The main obstacle in reaching such goals is that people who can do such things have not sufficient economical powers and those poor people live in fact in the future. We do not know what will be our profit at the end if we attempt to do such things and become successful. But I know what we will loose if we pass such oppurtinities. The quick profit makers will come into the field and they will take the profits again and again.
: : : 2. The more rug we see The better deal we do. Isn't it? Ok Steve, priory touching the hands to the rugs is not possible on the web but doesn't the web help deciding you where to touch? For example, you have seen a new hereke rug (sample on my page) and if you liked it, we can meet and you can buy it without wasting the time that you would probably spend to search if there is such rug or not. (No I am not selling it because it is not mine and I don't know if it is sold or not now. I gave it just as an example.) Or I can do the same for one of your rug and buy if you sell after an initial process of seeing on the web.
: : : 3. I learned a lot (Then I understood I know nothing as Sam says) from the webs and it is free information. I wonder how some journals such as Hal* which earns from buying&selling the information will be able to protect their positions if they are not planning to use the web.
: : : As last, I'd like to make some comments on another aspect. "Artistic Growths is possble by our computerized rug society?"
: : : Some days ago I've got an e-mail from an old (physically old but actually a young) collector. I'd like to begin with his words
: : :
: : : "To be successful in the artistic achievement, you must have the proper soil. Nothing can grow in the Sahara desert. In the same way, for art to flourish it must have the proper socialogical climate. I fear that our computerized society with its dehumanized society is not conducive to artistic growth..." (were the html tags used in that way on the board?).
: : : First I can just wish that our computerized society will not be conducive to artistic growth. It may even help the growth by opening new oppurtinities if the web or such communication tools, just the tools, of new societies are used in the correct way, in a constructive way. I also understand from these words that one who have used to have close contacts with rugs for very long time fears that computer is entering between him and rugs and then seperating them by a distance. But, I think one point is being missed. Jerry says that "No middle man anymore?" My response to this is that isn't the computer becoming the dealer of the current age by taking the positions of the middle man? I can think of many advantages and disadvantages of this new dealer. One of the advantages (may be considered as a disadvantage) is that I have no chance to hit him with the fist when I got nervous while communicating with a person and I can not take the risk of hitting this new dealer (computer) because it costed much to me.
: : : Regards,
: : : Erol
: : Dear Erol,
: : I understand and sympathize with your wish to hit your computer now and then. I've often thought mine would be more responsive with an occasional slap to the monitor. But I, too, have hesitated.
: : Perhaps I didn't explain what I meant in my first point well enough. Here's what I envision the 'net helping to happen:
: : 1) Local weavers establish their own web pages.
: : a) They put pictures of rugs they have woven on their pages.
: : b) They offer to make similar rugs for customers world-wide.
: : c) International customers contact them and ask questions like:
: : (1) I see you made rug #1 in a 4'x6' size. Can you make it as a 9'x12' size?
: : (2) The blue in the field is too dark. I've attached a sample of the color of blue
: : I'd like in my rug. Can you make the rug using this color?
: : (3) I've attached a picture of a rug I'd like to own. Can you make one like this in
: : a 9'x12' size with these blues and reds?
: : 2) Local weaver reaches an agreement with a customer and ask for a deposit to pay for
: : materials and part of the labor.
: : 3) Local weaver sends pictures to the customer of the rug on the loom, making sure that the
: : customer is pleased with the progress.
: : 4) Local weaver sends pictures of the completed rug, final shearing, tying fringes, washing,
: : and asks for final payment including shipping and insurance.
: : 5) Customer gets rug, is delighted, tells friends, shows them pictures of the rug being made,
: : and interests others in having rugs made in this manner.
: : Technically, this could all be done right now. The only obstacles are the lack of trust between people who have never done business with each other and the lack of trust that some people still have with doing any business over the Internet. Both of these obstacles are diminishing as more and more people buy things over the Internet.
: : That's what I mean about eliminating the middle man. This entire transaction could take place between the weaver and the final customer. (Of course, it could also take place between the customer and a middle man/manufacturer/importer/retail dealer, too.) Whether the first of these transactions takes place in one month or one year or one decade, it most assuredly will take place.
: : Cordially,
: : -Jerry-
: Dear Jerry and Erol:
: In fact, has not this sort of activity been ongoing
: for some time by snail mail? I have to tell you that the
: idea of Sally Housewife contacting Zalla Weaver in the
: hinterlands of Turkey to discuss color shades found in
: her damask covered sofas is an electronic conversation I
: would love to read in on. I think there will always be
: a middleman, only his role might change. You still have to
: sell the thing. The Internet isn't going to establish any
: new sensibility in Sally, it is only going to facilitate
: her ability to control what she wants.
: Regards, Michael
Okay, let's forget about Sally for the moment.
What if you decided that, gosh darn it, just because all the great 17th century Turkish rugs were already in museums or private collections you weren't going to give up your passion for owning perfect reproductions of them. So you surf the Web and discover the site of a Turkish weaver. She's got her inventory pictured on the site. They're pretty good - good enough that with a little direction she might be able to duplicate one of the nifty yellow ground Konyas you've been drooling over in Kirchheim's book. You e-mail her a picture. She says she thinks she can do it. And the scenario plays out as I've suggested above.
Why would you need a middle man? You and the weaver can do all the haggling over price necessary. You can make suggestions as the weaving progresses. (Oops, that yellow's too drab!) And so, for that matter, could Sally.
Now where's Tuduc when we need him?
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