David R E Hunt January 7th, 2014 06:17 AM

Color, Condition and Drawing...
Hi Joel

Thank you for the provoking essay with it's attendant collection of interesting examples of this favored form of baluch bag.
I confess I don't own a single example of these bagfaces, while I am quite the fan. Maybe this salon of yours will spur me on to take the plunge.

I admit being somewhat perplexed in regard to those attributions bandied about in regard to Baluch weaving.
Much speculation, little if any hard fact it seems.This could be a good thing. Instead of being weighed down as it were,
by the varieties of structure and provenance as seems to be the status quo in Turkmen collecting, we are freed to
appreciate baluch weaving based solely upon our personal interpretations of beauty. Which is not the same as saying that
others will agree with your opinion, but still...

It seems that color, condition, and drawing are the variables that I personally use to size up a weaving, but not necessarily in that order.
In my experience color and condition (or lack of) are the two attributes which most immediately attract my attention, but I am fond of drawing
and am willing to concede in the color or condition departments if the drawing is good.

This is a great example of the use of color in a baluch weaving IMHO. Not so much based upon the range of colors used, but that this
blue is a striking color and the dark/border vs. the light/field really highlights this blue well.

A good example of drawing trumping color...

An example in excellent condition. Baluch pieces of respectable age in this condition are rare, I believe, and worth adding to your collection.
Imagine what the Craycraft piece (the first above) would be worth in this condition...

I am especially fond of the drawing in these bags, which I personally refer to as "star" bags...

As I had stated above, I've yet to take the plunge in regard to adding one of these bag faces to my collection, but have been doing my homework.
I won't say much in regard to the following series of images, as many were and may still be on the market. I would suggest that you try to guess which criteria,
be it color, drawing, condition, or combination thereof persuaded me to include it here.


Joel Greifinger January 13th, 2014 12:12 AM

Hi Dave,

I'll just start with color.

For me, this splits up into two categories. The first is bags that are colorful in their use of a range of pleasing, often bright colors. The other is those that use fewer and often darker colors, but where the particular shades and level of saturation is outstanding.

Here are a couple from the first, colorful group:

and here is an example of the other type. In this case, the shade and saturation of the red juxtaposed with the white and midnight (surmey) blue is particularly exciting:


You wrote:
I won't say much in regard to the following series of images, as many were and may still be on the market.
As much as I'd like to :cry:, I won't either since some (all?) are currently on the market. There's one that I've examined close up and found rather disappointing. Since it is still for sale, I won't say which one. :banana:


Joel Greifinger February 9th, 2014 01:21 AM

I recently came across this example that goes quite far in the minimalist direction in terms of color while also representing an uncommon variant in the drawing:


Filiberto Boncompagni February 9th, 2014 10:52 AM

The contrast between the red and the somber blue... The drawing...

I absolutely love it! :thumbsup:



James Blanchard February 12th, 2014 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by Joel Greifinger (Post 16639)
I recently came across this example that goes quite far in the minimalist direction in terms of color while also representing an uncommon variant in the drawing:


What a nice piece! I really like how the "curled leaf" elements in the border actually look more like animals than most. They really look like Baluch fauna.


Joel Greifinger February 22nd, 2014 04:55 AM

While the vast majority of 'Baluch' pile weavings are asymmetrically knotted, there is a sizable group of fairly recognizable symmetrically-knotted types. This is not the case when it comes to symmetrically-knotted 'Baluch' bags. I've only heard mention of very few and have never seen one up close.

Fortunately, intrepid symmetrically-knotted 'Baluch' collector, Martin Willimann has been sharing the breadth of his extremely instructive holdings on his site http://baluch.ch/ :cheers:

Included there are three symmetrically-knotted star-in-octagon bags. Their similarity in field design appears to represent a recognizable sub-group. Are there others out there?


Joel Greifinger March 4th, 2014 06:24 PM

This example gets high marks in my estimation for both color and drawing (and it's reputed to have velvety wool, as well). :thumbsup: It sold at the November, 2011 Rippon-Boswell auction. Described as "late 19th century", interestingly, the description continued, "The small design details dyed with fuchsine are an indication of the item’s age." This is not the first time that I have encountered the citing of the inclusion of an early synthetic dye in a 'Baluch' weaving in order to provide evidence for its relatively early origin.

Some, to my mind, fortunate buyer, was able to suspend any aversion to "fuchsine" and purchased this one for a fairly sizable sum.


Joel Greifinger March 10th, 2014 01:20 AM

I'll take that with cochineal, please.
This next bag face with 'lightning border' is from the same design pool as the last, but adds to its color repertoire the combination of madder and the bluer cochineal reds (the latter most easily seen in the weft-substitution pattern at the top). The simple diamond and animal-head device that alternates between these colors in the 'outer field' is a common filler in rugs generally attributed as Timuri that utilize cochineal (e.g., http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00127/timuri.htm)

This bag face came on the market this morning. Happily, it can be presented here because it was bought within a few hours. I'm sure the buyer will be happy, as well. :bravo:


Chuck Wagner March 12th, 2014 06:37 AM


That red in the flatweave section is really attractive. You're right, someone is happy.


Frank Martin Diehr June 1st, 2014 05:11 PM

Another symmetrically knotte star-in-o-bag
Hi Joel,

referring to your post #6, here's one more, from my collection:

Any more anyone?