Posted by Yon Bard on 06-08-2006 02:29 PM:

My Salor(?) trapping

I just discovered the discussion of my ACOR8 piece that occured on Turkotek in the past weeks, and I would like to respond to some of the points that were made:

1. There were some other people who suggested that it's not Turkmen, but to me the piece looks absolutely Turkmen in all respects. And even if it isn't, the question of its use still stands.
2. The "Salor" attribution shouldn't be taken too seriously, but, on structural grounds alone, it's closer to Salor than anything else that I know.
3. The bib idea is the first thing that comes to mind, and indeed embroidered Turkmen baby bibs of this shape are not uncommon. However, the hole in this piece is too small, the pile makes the piece too stiff for such a use, and why was the whole reinforces instead of opened? Besides, who would use a difficult-to-wash pile piece for such a messy application?
4. Sue's suggestion is the only one I have received so far that has even a small measure of plausibility; however, the little bag on the child's head in Thompson page 50 does not look like a viable analog; it's much smaller and folding my piece into a triangle does not produce a plausible sack, so I retain some doubts about the suggestion's correctness.

Regards, Yon

Posted by Sue Zimmerman on 06-08-2006 03:06 PM:

Hi Yon,
I'm not saying the bag in the photo was an analog to your piece. I'm saying that your piece, and others like it, would stay in the shaman's possession as one of his tools. I'm trying to say that it was used as a ceremonial textile -- a work surface.
A square of cloth would be placed on it's center and the dirt would go on top of that. After the ceremony the square of cloth would be folded in half into a triangle and sewn up. See? Sue

Posted by Yon Bard on 06-08-2006 03:24 PM:

Sue, and what happens to it after it's sewn up? I really find it hard to believe that a thick elaborate pile piece would be used in this way. Perhaps if it were half pile and half plainweave, like a typical bag, I'd buy this theory.

Regards, Yon

Posted by Sue Zimmerman on 06-08-2006 03:43 PM:

Yon, Your piece stays with the shaman, just as it is, to be reused, like a table top surface would be reused in the West. It's the plain cloth that is placed on top of it, with the dirt in it, not one's like yours, which is what would be folded, sewn up, and sent on it's way. Is that clearer? Sue

Posted by Sue Zimmerman on 06-08-2006 04:00 PM:

Maybe I should have said that the plain cloth square, to be put on top of pieces like yours, would fit, size-wise, into the non-pile area on your piece. It would be that much smaller of a square of plain cloth. Could that be what is being misunderstood? Sue

Posted by Yon Bard on 06-08-2006 04:40 PM:

Sue, OK. I didn't understand that. The shape of the unpiled area is rather complex, not a simple diamond. But I suppose it could be used for this purpose, and I'll accept this as a possibility. Question is, why haven't more of these pieces come to light?

Regards, Yon

Posted by Sue Zimmerman on 06-08-2006 04:59 PM:

Well Yon, to your question, seems sometimes the magic worked and sometimes it didn't. Apparently, for the Salor, it didn't. Sue