Posted by Richard_Farber on 10-08-2004 09:52 AM:

Mystery Textile Number 11

Here is the first clue for Mystery Textile number 11:

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-09-2004 08:28 AM:

Bonjour Richard

Pile rug, yellow ground, floral or fruit motif = east turkestan rug,
probably mid XIX, maybe Khotan


Posted by Richard Farber on 10-09-2004 09:24 AM:

dear all

another clue to help further sharpen the astute guess.


richard farber

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-09-2004 09:35 AM:

more east

I was not enough far to the east. The blue and the brown and the angular shape evoque a more chinese influence, but the pile looks always turkestan. If not Khotan maybe Yarkan ?


Posted by Richard Farber on 10-09-2004 11:22 AM:

dear all

here is another clue . . . to help give a final answer

and tomorrow another one if this doesnt help


richard farber

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-11-2004 03:32 AM:


Hello Richard

Your pictures puzzle me a lot.
Now I see that the east turkestan thread is not good at all. What can it be ?
The motif is floral.
The fruits or blossoms can go with a tree of life motif, or a vase motif.
The shape and the style of the flower is not at all persian but looks something like chinese.
Is we explore all the same the persian thread it could be southwest (Niriz or Neiriz : yellow ground, angular architecture, realistic rendition of the frouit motives...) or north i.e. Heriz. But the general look of the motif doesn't speak persian.

If it is not persian, it could be Ningxia. After a long seach in my documentation I didn't find any pictures that match !

The terrible thing in this story is that your pictures seems to me very familiar !



Posted by Johanna Raynor on 10-12-2004 06:24 AM:

Hi there
Found this link
to a
Yarkand 1850
silk throne cover
javascript: newWindow = RevealWin( 'P02402_I02231_04201_pop.html', 'mccullough240502_2',252,750,2);

Is this what we are looking for??


Posted by Steve Price on 10-12-2004 08:43 AM:

Hi Johanna

If you'll send me the URL of the page you're trying to link, I'll insert it into your message.


Steve Price

Posted by Steve Price on 10-13-2004 12:45 PM:

Hi People

Louis has sent me the images of what he believes to be the piece Johanna was referring to:

Thank you, Louis.

Steve Price

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-13-2004 01:23 PM:


Bonsoir ą tous

Thank you Johanna for your help. The trail remains around the Yarkand place. Yellow ground, angular branching of the design. But the Richard rug lacks of pomegranade and seems to be more precise in the drawing of details than use to do Yarkand weavers (the drawing is more schematic as we can see in those pictures of a Yarkand throne cover).

Richard, where is the next clue ?

Amicales salutations

Posted by Richard Farber on 10-13-2004 02:14 PM:

dear all

another clue

you are there . .. .dont turn away


richard farber

Posted by Richard Farber on 10-14-2004 12:21 PM:


good luck

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-15-2004 11:14 AM:

Thibetan ?

could be Thibetan.

Floral thibetan meditation matt, XIXI°

Louis Dubreuil

Posted by Richard Farber on 10-15-2004 01:45 PM:

dear all

i wrote before

you are there . . . dont turn away

this is the image of the piece . . . it is unfortunately a fragment


richard farber

what was missing before was . . . . what the piece could be . . . .

Posted by Richard Farber on 10-17-2004 02:47 AM:

we have a winner !!!!

dear all thank you for your contributions

silk carpet on cotton

east turkestan was called chinese turkestan possibly yarkand which is the primary town of the area

middle to end of 19th cent.

the salon will be opened for another day or two for your comments and corrections if i have made a mistake.

thank you

richard farber

Mr. Louis Dubreuil is of course are winner and has the honor of purchasing and wearing a turkotek tee shirt if ever they will be made. he had almost guessed the piece from the first clue . . . and would have done so if he had mentioned the word silk . . . . he than made a little mistake and thought that the piece couldnt be from khotan or yarkand because they had no pommegranites but the first two clues are images of pommegranites

so all honor to Louis Dubreuil and Amicales salutations

Posted by Louis Dubreuil on 10-17-2004 12:34 PM:

The first impression is often the good one . After, I have losted myself in details. Your rug is however quite unusual for east turkestan. Here is in it a stronger chinese influence than in the usual stuff. I was looking for "normal" pomegranades, these in your rug being quite small !

It would be fine if we can look at the whole rug in a total picture.

Is there a good book specialised in east turkestan production ? I know only the pages that are usualy made about these rugs at the end of the rugbooks.

The game was quite funny and interesting. Bravo Richard.

Avec mes amicales salutations


Posted by Richard Farber on 10-17-2004 02:04 PM:

dear Louis Dubreuil

thank you very much for your kind words . . .

the image is of just about all that remains of the fragment . . . there is just a irregularly cut bit hanging over the image that i posted with the cotton braided . . .

i choose it for the game because it seems a rather special . . . or perhaps better said . . . a rather strange example of an east turkestan rug. i still think it is east turkestan because of the pallet of colors and quality of the silk, but of course i could be wrong.

i dont know of a book on carpets from this area . . . perhaps john howe or another of the team does? you could ask one of the reputable book dealers. i would be happy to recommend one or two off site. [we cant recommend dealers on the site]

thanks again to you and all the others who participated.