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Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

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Old June 25th, 2018, 02:06 PM   #1
Gerry Gorman
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Default Kerman Zili Sultan perhaps??

Hi everyone,

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the following rug. It measures 6' 3" X 4'. It is in reasonable condition, low pile in places but ends and selvages are pretty intact. Each fringe has a different border design. Colours are somewhat more muted than what you can actually see in these images, I have an over exuberant photo editing tool. Stab in the dark from me is Kerman, Zili Sultan design, age around 1900 - 1930. If you need more pics just let me know.











thanks for looking and all comments welcome,

Gerry
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Old June 25th, 2018, 03:01 PM   #2
Rich Larkin
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Hi Gerry,

It doesn't look like Kerman to me. Can you post a closer image of the area in your second last shot that gives a good view of the knot collars (in the yellow area) where it is partially worn?

What do you mean by this?
Quote:
Each fringe has a different border design.
I assume you realize the fringe at one end where there has been partial loss has been secured by a repair made with red yarn (shown well in your last image).

That palette is distinctive and should help to pinpoint the provenance and vintage, but it isn't coming to me at the moment.

Rich
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:25 PM   #3
Gerry Gorman
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Default Probably not a Kerman!

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your comments. With me, you shouldn't assume anything. I can understand why the different fringe would be a repair though why would the repairer not attempt to create a close facsimile of the original fringe design? I have attached another image of a close up of the collars in the yellow area you pointed out. Hopefully this will help you in determining the rugs id.



Thanks Gerry
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:43 PM   #4
Ken Shum
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Gerry,

That 'repair' is to minimize further pile loss.

What you are thinking of is actually 'restoration' would would involve much more work and cost. Extensions to the warps would need to be done and new wefts as well before knotting can start. To me it looks like perhaps one to one and a half inches would need to be rewoven.

The work would probably cost more than what the rug would be worth if so done.

Ken
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:17 PM   #5
Joel Greifinger
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Default Warps and wefts

Hi Gerry,


Are the warps and wefts wool or cotton? I can't tell for certain from the pictures on my monitor.


Joel Greifinger
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:36 PM   #6
Gerry Gorman
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Hi Joel,

I think the wefts are cotton though I would not be sure for certain as I'm not in a position to inspect the rug personally at the moment. Gerry
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Old June 25th, 2018, 08:18 PM   #7
Steve Price
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Gorman View Post
Hi Joel,

I think the wefts are cotton though I would not be sure for certain as I'm not in a position to inspect the rug personally at the moment. Gerry
Hi Gerry

I'm hoping this doesn't mean that it's a piece you are thinking about buying. If it is, I'll have to delete the thread before it goes any further.

Steve Price
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Old June 25th, 2018, 11:39 PM   #8
Gerry Gorman
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Hi Steve, I appreciate your concern but no I am not considering purchasing this rug, It belongs to a friend of mine who would like to find out more about it's origin and I said I'd try to give him some information but I have exhausted my own resources and thought some insight maybe found at this forum. I understand your unwillingness to attach any advice to the potential commercial value of any rug or carpet which is featured on this forum and this in fact is what makes this forum special and I respect that.

Regards

Gerry
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Old June 26th, 2018, 02:18 AM   #9
Rich Larkin
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Hi Gerry,

Your latest image makes it pretty clear the knots in this rug are symmetrical. That would not fit a Kerman attribution, and a Kerman rug would not have that look where there is partial wear.

I am not sure of this, but the warps look to me like pale brownish wool twisted with cotton. That is not unheard of, but it is not common either. Look carefully at the last image in your first set, and you should see what I mean.

Sometimes, a rug with a lot of imbedded dirt that has been washed will in the drying process leach out the ends of the fringe some slightly 'muddy' rinse water, leaving a brownish residue at the tips of those fringes. However, I do not think that is what is going on in the rug you posted.

Rich
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Old June 26th, 2018, 02:44 AM   #10
Steve Price
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Thanks, Gerry. I just wanted to be sure.

Steve
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Old June 26th, 2018, 02:51 AM   #11
Chuck Wagner
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Hi,

By the palette alone, I would have guessed Turkish.

Beyond that, I'll have to dig through a few books to look for an analogue.

Regards
Chuck
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Old June 26th, 2018, 04:47 AM   #12
Rich Larkin
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Quote:
By the palette alone, I would have guessed Turkish.
Yes, Chuck, that is my conundrum. And there are rugs produced in Turkey in imitation of Persian models. But I did not think any of them looked like this one. I thought that type of Turkish palette was 'in' at an earlier period than the Persian knock-off rugs one might think of. But maybe that is the answer.

Rich
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Old June 26th, 2018, 09:45 AM   #13
Gerry Gorman
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Turkish was my original reaction when I first set eyes on the rug but the Herati border made me think it was more Persian. I thought the palette had a Konya feel about it.

PS: Steve, how can one have integrity without ensuring some sort of standard is met. If I happen to unwittingly stray from the path of rug righteousness, I am happy for you gently guide me back.

Gerry
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