Welcome to TurkoTek's Discussion Forums

Archived Salons and Selected Discussions can be accessed by clicking on those words, or you can return to the Turkotek Home Page. Our forums are easy to use, and you are welcome to read and post messages without registering. However, registration will enable a number of features that make the software more flexible and convenient for you, and you need not provide any information except your name (which is required even if you post without being registered). Please use your full name. We do not permit posting anonymously or under a pseudonym, ad hominem remarks, commercial promotion, comments bearing on the value of any item currently on the market or on the reputation of any seller. Beautiful Kapunuk Shemle Design - Turkotek Discussion Forums


Go Back   Turkotek Discussion Forums > Virtual Show and Tell

Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 9th, 2018, 02:08 PM   #1
Dr Joseph Kamal
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
Default Beautiful Kapunuk Shemle Design

Dear Colleagues,
Hope all is well. Could you kindly share your opinions on this kapunuk with a Shemle design. Thank you in anticipation







Regards
Dr Joseph Kamal Muhammad
Dr Joseph Kamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2018, 07:43 PM   #2
Marvin Amstey
Members
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 43
Default

IMHO - this is new Afghan production. While Saryk knotting has depressed warps, the 90 degree depression in this piece is usually not seen. The leather straps on the back are frequent in new production from Iran and Afghanistan, put there to keep the edges from rolling under because of the tight weave.

The bright yellow is rare or not seen at all in older Saryk pieces.

I'll look forward to others' opinions.
Marvin
Marvin Amstey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2018, 09:45 PM   #3
Dr Joseph Kamal
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
Default Beautiful Kapunuk Shemle Design

Dear Marvin
Hope all is well.
Thank you for your insight.
The leather backing was put on the back so that I could hang the kapunuk, which I did not do in the end. As I am aware there are no Saryk Kapunuks with this design so it could be an Afghan innovation but I do not have the knowledge. When I bought the piece I thought it was new because the condition was pristine but admired the artisanship. The seller did not think it was antique either but we both agreed that the work was very fine.
Regards
Dr Joseph Kamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2018, 01:36 PM   #4
Marvin Amstey
Members
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, NY
Posts: 43
Default

Hello Joseph
There are some very well made 'new' rugs with pristine drawing, wool and knotting. I don't dismiss rugs because they are new. Its just that most folks here concentrate on original tribal pieces. The most important goal in owning a rug is to enjoy it.
Best
Marvin
Marvin Amstey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2018, 07:52 PM   #5
Dr Joseph Kamal
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
Default Beautiful Kapunuk Shemle Design

Dear Marvin
Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to respond to my thread.
May I share some information with you and your colleagues as my information is mainly from books whereas yours may also be from handling many Turkomen pieces.
The warp appears to be ivory wool, the weft brown and the kelim plain characteristic of saryk according to Jon Thompson as quoted by George O'Bannon.
The kelim end is brown (can be seen in the photo) as in a saryk ensi that I have seen.
The shemle design in this kapunak is seen in saryk torbas.
The design for this saryk kapunak is original as other Saryk kapunaks have the leaf design.
I thought that a piece in such good condition could only be an original tribal piece if it was a dowry item that was only on display at a marriage. It may explain why the yellow is still vibrant whilst on other Saryk items it has faded due to too much sun exposure and as a result can only be seen on the reverse of the piece.
Thank you for your patience in reading my ramblings.
Kind regards
Joseph
Dr Joseph Kamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2018, 08:23 PM   #6
Steve Price
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 96
Default

Hi Dr. Kamal

Collectors often get so absorbed in fantasizing about the artifact of an exotic culture that they overlook the aesthetics and craftsmanship. I'm as guilty as most others, although I have occasional lucid moments.

Steve Price
Steve Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2018, 05:28 PM   #7
Kay Dee
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Amstey View Post
Hello Joseph
There are some very well made 'new' rugs with pristine drawing, wool and knotting. I don't dismiss rugs because they are new. Its just that most folks here concentrate on original tribal pieces. The most important goal in owning a rug is to enjoy it.
Best
Marvin
Never a truer word spoken!
Kay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2018, 04:11 PM   #8
James Blanchard
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Price View Post
Hi Dr. Kamal

Collectors often get so absorbed in fantasizing about the artifact of an exotic culture that they overlook the aesthetics and craftsmanship. I'm as guilty as most others, although I have occasional lucid moments.

Steve Price

Aesthetics and craftsmanship are priorities for the large majority of people who acquire hand-woven rugs, including "tribal" rugs. Most "collectors" tend to focus more on age and rarity, along with aesthetic considerations. I think the most important consideration for those who are purchasing a rug is to have an understanding of what the weaving represents. It's very disappointing to purchase a rug that you think is old and "authentic", only to discover it is recent and made outside of an authentic weaving tradition. If you don't care about the authenticity and age of a weaving's origins, then focusing solely on aesthetics and physical characteristics (durability, size, texture, etc.) is perfectly rational.

Conversely, the knee-jerk rejection of an old weaving because it has a suspect dye can result in missing on some really beautiful rugs. I expect that some highly skilled weavers transcended to the period when early synthetic dyes were becoming available, such that they wove some with and some without synthetic dyes. Within the very large genre of old tribal weavings that are not the "very old" or "very rare", my view is that aesthetics are too often overlooked in judging a weaving. Artistry didn't necessarily disappear with the arrival of early synthetic dyes.

James

Edit...

P.S. What about a thread on our favourite rugs / weavings that we think have good aesthetic qualities?
James Blanchard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.