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Old August 28th, 2017, 05:07 PM   #21
Lloyd Kannenberg
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Hello Kay,

The correct dimensions are 5 feet by 8 or 152 x 244 cm; but what's 100 cm between friends?

I've resent my off-line message at the address Steve gave me; the previous attempt must have fallen into the bit bucket. Maybe your spam protector caught it. Smart move on its part.

Cheers!
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Old August 28th, 2017, 05:15 PM   #22
Jeff Sun
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It is, as I started to think, unfortunately, after I 'enhanced it', ' Chinese' made, that is either was made for the Tibetan market or just ended up in Tibet and had the red border added their. That is, it is definitely NOT Tibetan knotting! And the size makes it more a floor carpet (Sapden in Tibetan) than a sleeping carpet (Khaden in Tibetan").
Agree 100%, Kay. Certainly Chinese, maybe Ningxia given the Ningxia-esque swastika border?

Back to the original topic. In addition to the Tsarev book, which I have, you may want to check out "Oriental Rugs Vol 3 The Carpets of Afghanistan by Richard D. Parsons".
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Old August 28th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #23
Joel Greifinger
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you may want to check out Oriental Rugs Vol 3 The Carpets of Afghanistan by Richard D. Parsons
Hi Jeff,

I agree that Parsons' can be a useful book. It provides a very good overview of mid-twentieth century Afghan rugs. This was clearly his intention, as the few older rugs pictured date no earlier than the 1920's or so.

Problems arise when his categories are extrapolated back to earlier Turkmen and 'Baluch' weavings. I've read commentary and attributions by dealers who largely trade in later Afghan material inaccurately describe 19th century weavings from these groups citing Parsons as their source.

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Old August 29th, 2017, 02:10 AM   #24
Jeff Sun
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There is a definite danger in this type of conversation. What kind of danger you might ask? Danger of me buying more books!

...or to quote that renowned philosopher, Britney Spears..."Oooops I did it again!"

Last time we had a book conversation I ended up buying A Historical Atlas of Tibet on Kay Dee's recommendation. (super nice btw)

This time I found Te-Chun Wang's book at a bargain and also picked up a used copy of From the Land of the Snow Lion...but was that enough?

Nooooooooo.... I also found a copy of Glanz! Not at a bargain. But hey, I was on a roll...and I think I have almost exhausted all sources on Chinese and Tibetan rugs.

The danger now is that it won't stop there. Inevitably, after hunting for books, I start hunting for carpets. Stop me now before it is too late.

Maybe some of you have the same issues?
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Old August 29th, 2017, 07:08 AM   #25
Kay Dee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Sun;22750}
Last time we had a book conversation I ended up buying [U
A Historical Atlas of Tibet[/U] on Kay Dee's recommendation. (super nice btw)
Glad you liked it. Sure puts into perspective the vastness of Tibet, and, even if I just speak for myself here, the places we have heard about but really didn't have a clue where exactly in Tibet they were (unless of course you had been there, which I hadn't / haven't . ) When I lived next door, in 70's, early, 80's, twas not 'open' to us gweilo/u's .

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This time I found Te-Chun Wang's book at a bargain and also picked up a used copy of From the Land of the Snow Lion...but was that enough?
When is too much not enough? What ye think of 'Snow Lion' then?

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Nooooooooo.... I also found a copy of Glanz! Not at a bargain. But hey, I was on a roll...and I think I have almost exhausted all sources on Chinese and Tibetan rugs.
Well if I could read German, I'd certainly buy it too!

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The danger now is that it won't stop there. Inevitably, after hunting for books, I start hunting for carpets. Stop me now before it is too late.
Not possible, incurable virus. No one with it has ever been know to have been cured AFAIK.

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Maybe some of you have the same issues?
Color me, well, that color!
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Old August 29th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #26
Filiberto Boncompagni
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Hi guys,
You can send a private message to a member by clicking on his name (up left on the post). A menu will appear. The second item will be “Send a private message to…”
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Old August 29th, 2017, 07:35 AM   #27
Kay Dee
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Agree 100%, Kay. Certainly Chinese, maybe Ningxia given the Ningxia-esque swastika border?
And isn't that beautiful, beautiful border!!! But I am leaning, but only leaning mind you, towards that it may be from Gansu area? But still wondering why the image .jpg is labeled as 'Khotan' as it doesn't look to be from there to me, but................. .what do I know.

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Back to the original topic. In addition to the Tsarev book, which I have, you may want to check out "Oriental Rugs Vol 3 The Carpets of Afghanistan by Richard D. Parsons".
Argh, I may not have been clear. I have a fairly decent collection of books on Afghan rugs, some from back in the day of O'Bannon, etc but................. ..........they are all stored in another country, and as I do not have what you would call a 'permanent' home at present, have to be a little careful what I buy as when moving my yurt from pasture to pasture I gotta make sure I can still fit in. So, apart from my addiction to Tibet / western China rugs / books, I have to tread carefully with the Afghans, etc, nowadays and only buy when I see / know of a highly recommend book at a bargain basement price. I mean, surely, I don't think I am expecting toooooooo much there (not)?

But as Joel says, and same with some of the lets say pre 2000 books on Tibetan and / or Chinese carpets (even some that were considered 'bibles' in their day), there is a more than a fair share of, unintentional no doubt, but 'suspect' ID's of certain carpets, and written text to boot in some. (But gotta learn from others mistakes sometimes when it comes to rugs / books.) Still, I have most or maybe all of them as they are still useful as long as you know how to tell the forest from the trees, or in the case of rugs, is that the trees from the forest?
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Old August 29th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #28
Jeff Sun
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And isn't that beautiful, beautiful border!!! But I am leaning, but only leaning mind you, towards that it may be from Gansu area? But still wondering why the image .jpg is labeled as 'Khotan' as it doesn't look to be from there to me, but................. .what do I know.
Maybe it is labelled Khotan, because whoever labeled it was unsure and just wanted to get in the general area.[/B]

Last edited by Jeff Sun; August 29th, 2017 at 10:03 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2017, 01:05 AM   #29
Kay Dee
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Maybe it is labelled Khotan, because whoever labeled it was unsure and just wanted to get in the general area.[/B]
I think you pre-edit answer was better, that is they just wanted the folks on Turkotek to ID it for them!
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Old August 30th, 2017, 08:47 AM   #30
Kay Dee
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The danger now is that it won't stop there. Inevitably, after hunting for books, I start hunting for carpets. Stop me now before it is too late.
Jeff, given your addiction is similar to mine, I know well the cravings one has to endure to even keep it at bay, let alone cure it, so rather than help you let me again recommend something to feed your addiction / affliction.

That is, just received in the mail yesterday;
From Our Living Hands by Miranda Mimi Kuo (and Chris Buckley). Pub 2005. Can't tell you how many pages, as there not numbered, but max only 25 to 30 (or so?) I would say.

And I see a few and only a few copies on Bookfinder.com and IIRC starting at around 40USD; although I bought my copy ex Oztralia for a little less inc postage, so not cheap by any means for a small paged, but largish (slightly 'oversized' actually) format soft covered book, but to me well worth the dinero. Well worth.

Now while this book has Tibetan rugs in it, it is more / mainly about the weavers of said rugs, and their long family lineage of traditionally doing so shall we say. I wont say too much more but a VERY unique book, and given your affliction then I think it would be right up your ally Jeff.

Anyway sorry to be so nasty and dangle another juicy tidbit in front of you, but after all what are fiends for?

NOTE; This is not a book I would particularly recommend to anyone looking for books with a lot of info about Tibetan rugs themselves in (as the three I mentioned previously do), but more for someone (like I, and it seems Jeff) who just must have every book they can find on Tibetan weaving's. With that said though, it is in a class of it's own with its unique 'perspective' shall we say, and the color photos, mostly of the weavers (many / most) full page, not of rugs per se, are simply magnificent.

Last edited by Kay Dee; August 30th, 2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2017, 09:22 PM   #31
Jeff Sun
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From Our Living Hands by Miranda Mimi Kuo (and Chris Buckley).
Available as a PDF!
http://www.academia.edu/2265593/Livi...ans_FULL_TEXT_
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Old August 31st, 2017, 07:12 PM   #32
Kay Dee
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Well I guess this is where we will have to agree to disagree a little Jeff. I'm old school, that is I'd rather pay to feel the wood (err, paper) between my fingers than get a (free or paid for) PDF, which I am still going to want to print out, and then the photos (to me) will be inferior. And as a photographer I love photos, or should I say quality photos.

Nor am I giving anyone I don't have to any permission to access my email account and see all my 'contacts', as this acadamia.eu does. Do you know about that site? Interesting story but you'll have to Google that. I ain't the time or the care writing it up here.

Colour me crazy, but..............I just call it 'old school'.
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Old August 31st, 2017, 07:58 PM   #33
Jeff Sun
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Hi Kay-

I’m with you on preferring paper…sometimes. And let’s face it much of the literature on our chosen topics was written in another century(ies) and print is the only way you are going to get it. However as I get older I find electronic media has several distinct advantages:

1. Searchable- Punch in a term like “Takyab” or “Torba” and you can find things much quicker.
2. Cheaper-…usually.
3. Transportable- Like yourself, I have moved shop a couple of times and hauling a stack of books around is very inconvenient.
4. Compact-That same stack of books takes up a lot of living space.
5. Transferrable and Accessible- Anywhere I can bring a tablet, I can have my ebooks. At least in theory. I can also send quotes and pics if needed.

As to making all my contacts available….Naaahhh! I have an email account that I use for just such things with NO CONTACTS at all.
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Old August 31st, 2017, 09:08 PM   #34
Kay Dee
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Hi Kay-
I’m with you on preferring paper…sometimes. And let’s face it much of the literature on our chosen topics was written in another century(ies) and print is the only way you are going to get it.
Agreed.

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However as I get older I find electronic media has several distinct advantages: 1,2,3,4,5..........
Also agreed, basically, that is for everything except photographic type books so to speak............... ...but as Moshe Dayan once said "Times change and I change with them".. Well, lets see how I go.

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As to making all my contacts available….Naaahhh! I have an email account that I use for just such things with NO CONTACTS at all.
How interesting you should say that, as if I did not have the book, and wanted to look at it (to see if it was worth buying for instance) then I thought of doing exactly what you suggest. A a matter of fact I have one such email for a similar purpose. So I guess where not disagreeing so much after all.

So, just to be clear, what you are saying is, if you have an email address with no contacts, then you just click on 'allow' an they still accept that (with no contacts correct)?

But I do still have 'trouble' so to speak with reading, say, books on-line as it were, but as you say, much easier for traveling etc, and for say history / fiction books without pics, certainly the way to go!
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Old September 1st, 2017, 02:02 AM   #35
Jeff Sun
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So, just to be clear, what you are saying is, if you have an email address with no contacts, then you just click on 'allow' an they still accept that (with no contacts correct)?
Yes. It seems so.

But back to books! Here are my impressions of my recent purchases:

1. Glanz der Himmelssohne- Big book. REAL big. Coffee table sized. German text. I'm not a big fan of coffee table books, but given the topic I really can't argue too much. As the title would suggest "Glow of the Heavens", one might think the rugs in here are Imperial rugs...and at one time they might have been, but now they seem to be mostly in museum and private collections and all date to 19th century or earlier. However, a better title might have been "Rugs from Ningxia" because almost all of them are from Ningxia with only 1 or 2 exceptions. In fact, this might be the best book I've seen (But not read. Ha!)on the topic. I don't think there is a book exclusively on Ningxia rugs, but this is close. Even if you can't understand the German text, the photography is excellent, except, seemingly for the rugs that I was most curious about, which have very small photos. Or maybe I am interested in them BECAUSE they are small. Expensive. Unless you are really down with Ningxia Rugs and know German (mine is rather mehhhh), I think you can do with out it. Of course, I am really down with Ningxia rugs, and Chinese rugs in general, so I rate that a buy.

2.Antique Carpets-Te-Chun Wang Collection Pretty typical book of the 1970s. Pretty extraordinary for an auction catalog though. And as to the rugs. Ohh my! Wow. Just Wowwwwwww! Te-Chun knew how to pick them. There were better quality rugs in his private stash than in most major museums.

3.From the Land of the Snow Lion Just go buy it. This is a hefty volume on good bond paper re-pleat with good photos and informative text in English. This is a book on Tibetan craftsmanship and not necessarily just about rugs.I However, the section on carpets is big. Bigger than other dedicated books. The rugs depicted there are interesting and beautiful. Other than some takyabs, there are no carpets that I can say are repeated in other books. The sections on textiles, jewelry and carpentry also look interesting. A bit disappointing that my book arrived with a bent corner and a weak spine, but still a bargain. It's also the cheapest of the 3 books making it the easy choice: Just go get it.

Last edited by Jeff Sun; September 1st, 2017 at 02:51 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 03:59 PM   #36
Kay Dee
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But back to books! Here are my impressions of my recent purchases:

1. However, a better title might have been "Rugs from Ningxia" because almost all of them are from Ningxia with only 1 or 2 exceptions. In fact, this might be the best book I've seen (But not read. Ha!)on the topic.
Well thanks a lot Jeff, that's now another problem you have caused me!

Do I like Ningxia? Do I like NINGXIA?? Do I LIKE NINGXIA??? DO I LIKE NINGXIA????

Well yes I do, and now I am going to have to buy this book, cost and not being able to read German be damned.

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2.Antique Carpets-Te-Chun Wang Collection Pretty typical book of the 1970s. Pretty extraordinary for an auction catalog though. And as to the rugs. Ohh my! Wow. Just Wowwwwwww! Te-Chun knew how to pick them. There were better quality rugs in his private stash than in most major museums.
Yeah, can second that. But I have it 'back (where what was once) home' and at the price today just cant justify buying it a 2nd time - as I have with quite a few others - until I will (soon) win the lottery!

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3.From the Land of the Snow Lion Just go buy it. It's also the cheapest of the 3 books making it the easy choice: Just go get it.
Got it and agree fully, no ifs or buts!
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Old September 2nd, 2017, 02:10 PM   #37
Kay Dee
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Default Chinese style rug weave

I wonder if I am asking too much to suggest that a / the moderator split this thread into the posts re Lloyds rug, and the posts re Tibetan / Chinese rug / carpet book suggestions?

Possible?

And on that note, I found elsewhere a photo of the back of Lloyds lovely rug, and post it here in fairly large format so folks (who may not be so familiar with same) can get a could handle on the distinctive Chinese weaving (as opposed to Tibetan weaving, which I will post one of here later).

EDIT: Opps, didn't show up as large as I thought.


Last edited by Kay Dee; September 2nd, 2017 at 02:35 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2017, 02:47 PM   #38
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I wonder if I am asking too much to suggest that a / the moderator split this thread into the posts re Lloyds rug, and the posts re Tibetan / Chinese rug / carpet book suggestions?

Possible?
Hi Kay

Merging threads is easy, separating one thread into two or more, not so much. The short answer to your question is, yes, it is asking too much (at least, for me; Filiberto may be willing to do it).

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Old September 2nd, 2017, 03:02 PM   #39
Joel Greifinger
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Opps, didn't show up as large as I thought.
K.D.,

That photo shows up quite large on my computer monitor and takes up the entire space on my tablet. Photos larger than this make it very tough to view for various monitors/devices.

Joel
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Old September 2nd, 2017, 03:07 PM   #40
Filiberto Boncompagni
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Filiberto may be willing to do it
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