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Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

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Old August 6th, 2017, 02:35 PM   #1
Audrey Fussell
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Default Gabbeh ?

Hi! I'm in hope of insight re this worn out old rug which I rescued from a cache destined for the dump. So I'm a collector by chance! Some instinct made me save it. It's a somewhat tragic wreck - nevertheless I love it ! Endevouring to research I happened on Turkoteck. And thanks to Steve for his help re sending images. Would love to find out the where, when, and how it was woven. The rug measures about 6ft 6 inches long. It is soft and floppy. I notice that the top boarder is a different pattern to the other three sides. The field seems quite idiosyncratic compared to the more formal boarders. In awe of all the Turkoteck scholarship !









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Old August 6th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #2
Joel Greifinger
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Hi Audrey,

My first guess is that it is Kurdish. That version of floral meander border, often used multiple times, was very popular among Kurdish weavers. Here is another example:



It would be useful to have a close-up of the braided end finish on the rug and a closer and/or larger one of the back of the rug. Do you have a sense whether the warps (i.e., the yarns emerging from the rug that make up the 'fringe" or end finishes) are cotton or wool?

Joel Greifinger
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Old August 6th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #3
Myrick
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Thanks for info. I see the similarity of the boarder. Any idea of the date? And where were these Kurdish weavers located? I would love to know more of their history.
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Old August 6th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #4
Myrick
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I'll take some more images tomorrow in natural light. Have to admit I'm no photographer. I knew anything about tribal rugs. But, however damaged it maybe, something impelled me to save my rug from the dump, and to then research its origins. It's been a fascinating quest.
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Old August 6th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #5
Rich Larkin
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Hi Audrey,

Kudos to you for rescuing that one! You just can't beat saving a good one from the dump. I agree with Joel that it is probably Kurdish. Besides the diagnostic floral vine border, the way the end is finished (actually, that end was the start of the rug) with the line of wool yarn insinuated through it is also a typical feature of certain types of Kurdish rugs.

Of course, it is a little the worse for wear, but don't let that stop you. It would be useful to know what some of that whitish, cloudy mottling in the red field is about. It may be somewhat reversible with a good cleaning, which you could do yourself if you have the appropriate space.

If you are of a mind to try it, look at the discussion in Maurice Bjornestad’s thread (16" X 16" bag) about Orvus detergent. Get some of that and a natural bristle scrub brush of medium stiffness. If you have a flat outdoor surface, such as an asphalt or concrete driveway, see if you can set it up this way: create an outer frame of thin (ca. <one inch) boards forming an area slightly larger than the rug; set them up carefully but loosely; lay in a sheet of thin mylar plastic (such as a painter's drop cloth available for a buck or two at a hardware store...we are trying to keep your overhead down here ), forming a shallow "pan" or trough; lay in the rug; add a tepid water/Orvus solution, just covering the rug. The soaking will help to loosen up heaven knows what has accumulated or formed in your rug during its obviously checkered career.

For the rest, you can scrub judiciously, patiently and thoroughly until you think you are getting somewhere. (Marching around on it barefoot as though you are stomping grapes is permitted, but don't drink any! ) If your solution starts to look like dark roast coffee, you are heading in the right direction. You may decide to empty out the trough and run a fresh solution. Then, when you think the time is right, you can start rinsing. As Lloyd suggested in Maurice's thread, that will take a good deal of time and patience, and it is very important to do it thoroughly. A garden hose is a good approach, preferably with one of those nifty versatile nozzles. Turning the rug frequently (i. e., pile side up, to back side up) is good.

Here's a tip I have found helpful in the rinsing. I have taken a length (about ten or twelve inches) of ordinary tongue-in-groove hardwood flooring (the kind that is 2.25 inches [ca. 6mm] wide) to make a kind of plane to drive the solution (and a lot of dirt) out of the rug. Maple is best, but harder to find. Oak works well if you are careful to sand the splinters out. Whatever you use, sand the "sharp" edge (just above the groove in the side) evenly enough to eliminate splinters, etc., without taking off the sharpness.

To use it effectively, you must know the direction of the pile. Before starting, run your hand over the pile on the long axis of the rug, then in the opposite direction. One pass will encounter resistance (against the pile) and the other will be smooth (with the pile). "With the pile" will very likely turn out to be from the narrow flatwoven end (with the bead of wool yarn through it) towards the other end. You will pass your plane over the rug with the pile, holding it at a ca. 45 degree forward angle and creating a small tsunami of horribly dirty solution just ahead of the plane. (A rubber squeegee at the end of a broomstick can also work in this function, but the rubber is a greater risk to 'grab' and pull out what pile remains in the rug than the wood plane, especially with a rug such as your rescue item that may be weakened in some respects.)

Keep rinsing, planing, resting, until the cows come home. When you think you have just about had it, set it out to dry, preferably pile side up on something that keeps the rug approximately level and allows air to circulate underneath. It is a project, but you will think of something. Note that hanging the rug vertically will result in the still present dirt (Yes! There is still some in there!) leaching down through the rug and accumulating at the warp ends. But, before setting it out to dry, it is important to gently brush the pile in the direction it is supposed to lie, so that the pile will dry in the right shape. Rinsing your scrub brush thoroughly and using it for this part works well.

If you actually go out and do all this stuff, I will be astounded, and might recommend that you consider cutting back on surfing dubious websites. But I thought I would outline some methods I have learned the hard way of approaching dump-bound rugs, saved at the last minute. Yours looks like a good one, and it would be fun to see how it looks with some attention. If you do clean it up, be sure to post the results.

In the meantime, if you care to post a few more pics, a closer and more direct shot of the back would be interesting (to confirm what I think is single-weft construction, as I might expect in this type of Kurdish rug). Another could be a close-up of that mottled area in the red.

Thanks for sharing your interesting find.

Rich
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Old August 6th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #6
Myrick
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Default Kurdish?

Joel, I so appreciate your response. I'm not a collector. Had not the slightest knowledge of tribal rugs, and all the intricasy of weaving, till I chanced on a few worn out examples and saved them from being trashed. I realised the rugs were old and handmade, respected that, and tried to discover the history. Previous to my recent research I did not know a warp from a weft ! Hope my latest photo is of some use in finding out more. Regards, Audie
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Old August 6th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #7
Steve Price
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Hi Audie

Please sign in when you post, so your name shows up in the message header. If you prefer not to be logged in, just use Audrey_Fussell instead of Myrick in the user name field. The underscore between your first and last names is enough to fool the software into not asking you for your password.

Thanks

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Old August 6th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #8
Myrick
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Many thanks to you all for the fascinating insights. I'm in some trepidation re attempting to clean the rug, nevertheless some sunny day I will give it a try ! Any idea of the rug's date ? And where can I find out more about those Kurdish weavers ? As I said before I was a total ignoramus re 'oriental' rugs. I only saved the rug because I was intrigued by the treatment of the boarders as compared to those in 18th & early 19th century English embroidered samplers which were handed down in my family. My family were originally from Leek in Staffordshire, silk mill workers. It's interesting to discover historic links. The iconic Pre Raphaelite artist William Morris spent 2 years working with Sir Thomas Wardle in the Leek silk mills in an attempt to rediscover natural dyes, even unravelling ancient textiles to try to find out. I guess an interest in textiles might be genetic and maybe that was why some predecessor of mine collected some sad old rugs.
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Old August 6th, 2017, 08:51 PM   #9
Myrick
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Many thanks for all your insights. I'm fearful of trying to clean my rug, but one sunny day I'll take your advice and give it a try on the driveway ! Any idea of the date it was woven? As I indicated previously the 'science' of weaving is a mystery to me. It's been fascinating to search Tirkotek for info re dyes etc. So much to discover.
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Old August 6th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #10
Steve Price
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Hi Audie

Please sign in when you post, so your name shows up in the message header. If you prefer not to be logged in, just use Audrey_Fussell instead of Myrick in the user name field. The underscore between your first and last names is enough to fool the software into not asking you for your password.

Thanks

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Old August 10th, 2017, 10:18 PM   #11
Phil Bell
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Default Kurdish rug?

This is my first post!

I have two rugs with a similiar border, one is definitely a Hamadan but the other shown below is Kurdish I think? It was sold to me as a Hamadan but it is all wool foundation with a single very fat weft, it's the size of a sausage where it has become loose and I cant imagine how they packed it in while the rug still remains floppy.
It also has quite long pile and I think the colours are good.

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Old August 13th, 2017, 08:38 AM   #12
Audrey Fussell
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Default Re Kurds

Thanks to everyone for the great info ! Where were the Kurd weavers located ? And did they dye wool from their own herds ?
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Old August 13th, 2017, 09:49 PM   #13
Phil Bell
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Hi Audrey,

Kurds were pretty much everywhere from the south Caucusus to west Persia and east Turkey. There are a variety of sub groups with different styles and weaving techniques. Tribal rugs are hard to pin down because the nature of nomadic people is to soak up local cultures and copy designs. There are some specific groups such as Jaf Kurds whose weavings are perhaps easier to recognise.
It's more likely they would spin and dye their own wool and weave on horizontal portable looms. I think tribal rugs have an extra beauty from their wonky and quirky designs.
I really think you should wash that rug! I washed one in the bath today, it's shining now. Add some vinegar to the bath in case there are any unstable colours in it. Those sort of rugs are right up my street. I have a small collection of cheapish wonky, worn rugs with the odd gem.
I look forward to seeing the photo of the cleaned rug very soon.

Phil
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