Scheunemann rugs

Horst Nitz · October 18th, 2013, 10:20 PM

Hi

thanks to you Steve, for adjusting those brackets, and to you, Pierre, for the explanation. Actually, when I posted I thought I might be wrong in my interpretation of what you meant. In this new light it sounds very reasonable. This way the Dutch could probably establish an home market, cutting out the profits in the trading chain and the Venetian monopoly in the Levant trade. Famagusta on Cyprus was the principal port and the richest town in the Eastern Mediterranean at the time, I've learned from Wikipedia. I have been there quite a few times actually and always i am impressed by its forgone splendour.

It would be great if you could find a colour picture of the Pohlmann rug. Maybe I can find out more about it too, when the more active rug season begins and I can meet more people, among them some who might know something about it.

I’ve given the different palettes some thought too. Whilst the Ghirlandajo rug from the Halchiu church speaks for itself, the Scheuneman rug speaks to us in the interpretation of the painter, who after all was more concerned with the people than with the rug, which served as a status symbol (having the rug half tucked away is quite smart in this context). This interpretation is also prompted by the palette the painter uses. Its subdued tone-in-tone scale indirectly puts the portraits of the family in focus, and this is the paintings objective. Maybe we cannot wholly rely on the authenticy of the colours.

The two painters Ghirlandaio and Crivelli were contemporaries and probably used the rugs available to them that had freshly arrived, which in turn were contemporaries themselves, perhaps less than half a generation ahead of the painters, which puts them at around 1450. If one assumes that the Crivelli type of rugs precedes the Ghirlandaio rugs to an extend, that the latter can be regarded as a successor of the former, how does it fit in with the fact that the pictures are contemporaries, and which other rugs at the time of around 1350 or 1400 exist that could support the hypothesis, that the Crivelli is the tradition type to the Ghirlandaio? Is it likely at all, that rug production flourished between 1350 and 1400, at a time when Timur played havoc on the whole region? To me, much speaks for it, that the Crivelli and the Ghirlandaio patterns were more or less contemporary interpretations of a form considerably earlier, i.e. of the Ilkhanid period and its relative peace, or before.

I like your concept of ‘markers’ and will return to it.

Regards,

Pierre Galafassi · October 19th, 2013, 08:42 AM

Hi Horst,

My search on the net for a color picture of the Pohlman rug has not been a success.

Your point about the possibility of Dutch painters taking liberties with the palette of rugs is well taken. Indeed, seventeenth century painters, contrary to their Renaissance predecessors, would rarely think twice before making such modifications based on their artistic ideas. On the other hand, the fact that several dozens of painters represented Scheunemann’s rug with a similar palette, leaves some hope that the representations were, often enough, genuine in this case.

You are right, the timeline of Ghirlandaio- and Crivelli- motifs in Renaissance painting makes the theory that the latter was the ancestor of the former difficult to sustain, unless both motifs had an old tradition. A weaving in the same- or in close geographical areas remains a credible option though.

About the impact of Timurid wars on rug weaving: Yes, there is no doubt that it must have been significant in many ways, for example due to the habit of Timur (and most other Asian conquerors) to relocate talented artists and artisans from the stormed cities to his capital and main cities (instead of using their severed heads for building pyramidal road signs). On the other way, the trail of destructions spared many parts of Anatolia, which, besides, was not occupied by the victors, leaving the vanquished Ottomans free to take back and quickly amplify their domination there. In Timurid "Greater Persia", after the time of destruction a «Pax Timurica» started, which was as beneficial to Art and Trade as the «Pax Mongolica» of the Il-khanids a century before, if somewhat shorter and a trifle less stable.

Best regards
Pierre

October 18th, 2013, 10:20 PM	#1
Horst Nitz Members Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 14	Hi thanks to you Steve, for adjusting those brackets, and to you, Pierre, for the explanation. Actually, when I posted I thought I might be wrong in my interpretation of what you meant. In this new light it sounds very reasonable. This way the Dutch could probably establish an home market, cutting out the profits in the trading chain and the Venetian monopoly in the Levant trade. Famagusta on Cyprus was the principal port and the richest town in the Eastern Mediterranean at the time, I've learned from Wikipedia. I have been there quite a few times actually and always i am impressed by its forgone splendour. It would be great if you could find a colour picture of the Pohlmann rug. Maybe I can find out more about it too, when the more active rug season begins and I can meet more people, among them some who might know something about it. I’ve given the different palettes some thought too. Whilst the Ghirlandajo rug from the Halchiu church speaks for itself, the Scheuneman rug speaks to us in the interpretation of the painter, who after all was more concerned with the people than with the rug, which served as a status symbol (having the rug half tucked away is quite smart in this context). This interpretation is also prompted by the palette the painter uses. Its subdued tone-in-tone scale indirectly puts the portraits of the family in focus, and this is the paintings objective. Maybe we cannot wholly rely on the authenticy of the colours. The two painters Ghirlandaio and Crivelli were contemporaries and probably used the rugs available to them that had freshly arrived, which in turn were contemporaries themselves, perhaps less than half a generation ahead of the painters, which puts them at around 1450. If one assumes that the Crivelli type of rugs precedes the Ghirlandaio rugs to an extend, that the latter can be regarded as a successor of the former, how does it fit in with the fact that the pictures are contemporaries, and which other rugs at the time of around 1350 or 1400 exist that could support the hypothesis, that the Crivelli is the tradition type to the Ghirlandaio? Is it likely at all, that rug production flourished between 1350 and 1400, at a time when Timur played havoc on the whole region? To me, much speaks for it, that the Crivelli and the Ghirlandaio patterns were more or less contemporary interpretations of a form considerably earlier, i.e. of the Ilkhanid period and its relative peace, or before. I like your concept of ‘markers’ and will return to it. Regards,

October 19th, 2013, 08:42 AM	#2
Pierre Galafassi Members Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 153	Hi Horst, My search on the net for a color picture of the Pohlman rug has not been a success. Your point about the possibility of Dutch painters taking liberties with the palette of rugs is well taken. Indeed, seventeenth century painters, contrary to their Renaissance predecessors, would rarely think twice before making such modifications based on their artistic ideas. On the other hand, the fact that several dozens of painters represented Scheunemann’s rug with a similar palette, leaves some hope that the representations were, often enough, genuine in this case. You are right, the timeline of Ghirlandaio- and Crivelli- motifs in Renaissance painting makes the theory that the latter was the ancestor of the former difficult to sustain, unless both motifs had an old tradition. A weaving in the same- or in close geographical areas remains a credible option though. About the impact of Timurid wars on rug weaving: Yes, there is no doubt that it must have been significant in many ways, for example due to the habit of Timur (and most other Asian conquerors) to relocate talented artists and artisans from the stormed cities to his capital and main cities (instead of using their severed heads for building pyramidal road signs). On the other way, the trail of destructions spared many parts of Anatolia, which, besides, was not occupied by the victors, leaving the vanquished Ottomans free to take back and quickly amplify their domination there. In Timurid "Greater Persia", after the time of destruction a «Pax Timurica» started, which was as beneficial to Art and Trade as the «Pax Mongolica» of the Il-khanids a century before, if somewhat shorter and a trifle less stable. Best regards Pierre