Welcome to TurkoTek's Discussion Forums

Archived Salons and Selected Discussions can be accessed by clicking on those words, or you can return to the Turkotek Home Page. Our forums are easy to use, and you are welcome to read and post messages without registering. However, registration will enable a number of features that make the software more flexible and convenient for you, and you need not provide any information except your name (which is required even if you post without being registered). Please use your full name. We do not permit posting anonymously or under a pseudonym, ad hominem remarks, commercial promotion, comments bearing on the value of any item currently on the market or on the reputation of any seller. Islamic writing on rug translation help please - Turkotek Discussion Forums


Go Back   Turkotek Discussion Forums > Virtual Show and Tell

Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 7th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #1
Kay Dee
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 72
Default Islamic writing on rug translation help please

Can anyone be kind enough / knowledgeable enough to translate the writing (signature?) in this rug please.

And would I be correct in assuming the rug (Gul) is a Yomud?

TIA



Kay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 12:14 PM   #2
Chuck Wagner
Members
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 74
Default

Hi Kay,

What I see is:

Top line, right: Shah
Top line, left: Nishapour

Middle line: 2537 (which doesn't make any sense)

Bottom line: I still can't get this worked out

Disclaimer: I could have it all wrong...

Regards
Chuck
Chuck Wagner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 05:27 PM   #3
Steve Price
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 104
Default

Hi Kay and Chuck

I don't read Arabic script except for numerals. They (the middle row) say 2537 to me, too. That can't be a date - it's still a millennium away.

The motifs are Yomud (the main gul in the field is known as dyrnak).

Steve Price
Steve Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2018, 10:58 PM   #4
Rich Larkin
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 169
Default

Hi Chuck,

Of course, I can't leave these things alone, a sure sign of a blind squirrel.

You are getting "Shah" for the first word and "Nishapour" out of the second in the top line. Keeping in mind we presumably don't know the language of the inscription, the letter, 'ha' ( ه ), seems to be missing from the end of "shah," an apparent necessity in most of the languages within hailing distance, according to Google Translate. Interestingly, however, a scribble that seems to be the beginning of the next word, is a reasonable facsimile of 'ha', and inconsistent with "Nishapour" (to which it seems to be attached). If we remove it a short distance to the right, joining it up with "shah," we may be killing two birds with one stone. Maybe you have already taken all that into account.

Getting to word #2, I don't see how "...pour" comes out of what is at the end. Any help there? Once again, it seems this may be a case of an illiterate weaver trying to copy an inscription. I realize that dodge starts to sound like a cop-out after several incidents.

I also cannot do much with the last word under the numbers. One has the impression the whole thing is trying to be a dedication with the "Shah" lead-in.

BTW, this is the second instance of a rug inscription we have encountered lately with a four-numeral number that does not seem compatible with any pertinent calendar year. How about Zoroastrian?

Rich
Rich Larkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2018, 05:16 AM   #5
Kay Dee
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 72
Default

Gents, thought I posted this before, but seeing it is not here, then................ .......a belated 'thanks muchly' for the input!
Kay Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2018, 02:31 PM   #6
Rich Larkin
Members
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 169
Default

As a post script to my previous entry, I googled 'Zoastrian calendar'. The Wikipedia article noted three years in the BCE period that are variously accepted as the starting point. The earliest of them, 637 BCE, yielded (I think!) an equivalent year for the 2537 on the rug as 1900. I did the math in my head while falling off a chair, so all of this must be taken with great caution and skepticism, including the factor of what is a Zoastrian date doing on a Yomud rug anyway; but it opens up an avenue for thought.
Rich Larkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2018, 02:14 AM   #7
Chuck Wagner
Members
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 74
Default

Rich,

Here's the chart I use for my guesstimates, with the subject image appended.

My thought was that the leading "sh" was affected by the other design elements and so, slightly distorted. Otherwise it's consistent with a leading "sh" (red line).

Another note; in handwritten Arabic script the letters are typically connected and cascaded down and to the left. So, I am taking a leap and assuming that there is an "r" hung on the end of a "w" at the left of the top line. And, that the squiggle between the "alif" and the "waw" is actually a dot under a peak, making it a "b".

The furthest left-most figure looks to me like a "7" turned on its side, possibly an error. I suppose it could be an incredibly badly done "ayn"; who knows. If that's the case then I'm wrong.

Anyway, that's what I was thinking.

Regards
Chuck

Chuck Wagner is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.