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Go Back   Turkotek Discussion Forums > Virtual Show and Tell > Does Anyone Know What This Main Border is Called?

Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

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August 13th, 2019 04:25 PM
Filiberto Boncompagni2 Hi Ian, next time remember to sign in, otherwise your post will result as "Unregistered".
August 13th, 2019 02:09 PM
Unregistered Here are 3 further examples from Bennett (plates 28, 34 and 35:

August 8th, 2019 01:17 PM
Ken Shum There is a tribe in the Caucasus that are called the Qarapapaqs (Karapapakh)

August 8th, 2019 10:36 AM
Filiberto Boncompagni2 One more comment from Pierre:

We can find pretty similar (sainak-like ) borders also in a number of Karatchoph Kazak rugs, including this

and also in both rugs’ field below

No idea what Karatchoph ethnicity could be, however Kara- / Qara- = black sounds turkic enough, while tchoph sounds more like occidental influenza.
August 7th, 2019 12:35 PM
Filiberto Boncompagni2 Hi Ian,

There you go:

I cannot help but notice the end of the text:
Remarks: The category termed "Bijov" by U. Schurmann is, according to Kerimov IV, N.8, actually called Lejedi.

But, of course, you can call it whatever you like.

Hum, those cruciform elements called "byukme" are also used on handsome Caucasian Sumak bags...

See 6th image in "John Wertime on Sumak Bags by R. John Howe"

August 7th, 2019 07:12 AM
Filiberto Boncompagni P.S.

Iean, I see now you e-mailed me the extract you mentioned.
I'll attach it later, no time now.
August 7th, 2019 07:04 AM
Filiberto Boncompagni Hi Ian,

Sure! I don't have that book but I guess we should trust the local guys more than the foreign experts.
I still cannot find an identical border to that one.
August 6th, 2019 09:27 PM
Ian Strange Hi Filiberto

This extract from "Azerbaijani-Caucasian Rugs" (Azadi, Kerimov and Zollinger, pp 336 & 337) makes it clear that it is, indeed, Bijov. The previous page shows a different type (also Bijov) "according to Kerimov" (sic). Of course, Bijov, Shirvan and Baku are geographically pretty close.

My seller described the rug as "Derbend Shirvan" (which is nonsensical, I think) and the V&A reckoned it was Shirvan from the octagons converted to squares by means of gussets.

As for the border, I've just realised that it is composed of repetitions of the central section of the "Wheel of Life" motif in the central field, although Pierre Galafassi's researches add another interesting layer of speculation. The example on page 296 is very similar to mine.
August 6th, 2019 04:22 PM
Filiberto Boncompagni I received the following from Pierre Galafassi:

Hi Filiberto,

Iím in a hurry, so just a short comment and these 3 pics
I could not find any identical border to the one just published in Turkotek.
A slight variation of a main border which can be seen sometimes on XIX-XX century Kasak rugs and which itself seems to be a close parent of the extremely frequent Turkmen Sainak motif which, was used not only as border but also as field motif. It was ubiquitous on Ensi rugs.

Why should the Sainak motif appear in Caucasian rugs too?

Well, I could suggest several possible explanations:
1) I have found so far only relatively recent examples of Caucasian rugs with this border motif. They all could well be posterior to the Russian conquest of Turkmenistan, motif contamination could have happened via Russian administration or individual soldiers (Remember the Russian military hero of the bloodless capitulation of the Merv Tekkes and then governor of Merv (Alikhanov) was a Caucasian tribesman. So were many Russian officers and soldiers.
2) Even if older Sainak motifs could still be found on Caucasian rugs, we should *remember that:
- many tribal minorities of the Caucasus were of Turkic origin and some of them could have kept this motif in their tribal arsenal
- at least one Turkmen clan is mentioned as having migrated to the Caucasus (If my memory does not fail me, it was a Chodor clan and the migration took place around the 17th century). This clan was quite likely to have treasured the sainak motif.
- as our dear Marla every now and then teaches us: motifs have very good legs and travel fast.

I pass this few thoughts on to you. Please use them as you fancy, on site. (I will not have time in the next few week to post on Turkotek)

Thank you Pierre,


A*Kasak *XIX-XX Nagel 294 ill 114 var. of Turkmen Sainak border

B*Kasak *XIX-XX Nagel 294 ill 121 *331 var. of Turkmen Sainak border

C*Kasak *XIX-XX Nagel 296 page 175 var. of Turkmen Sainak border

August 6th, 2019 02:02 PM
Filiberto Boncompagni Thanks, Ken.

This one, link from Dadashov's
was actually sold as Erivan...


August 6th, 2019 01:33 PM
Ken Shum According to Vugar Dadashov's webpage, the OP's picture is indeed of a Shirvan
Bijo/Bijov rug.
August 6th, 2019 07:28 AM
Filiberto Boncompagni There we go: plate 280 from Bennett's “Caucasian”.

The comment: “According to Schurmann, strong geometry of design is a feature of rugs from the Baku district. The present example, on structural grounds, can be assigned to the eastern Caucasus but may be attributed to Shirvan as well as Baku.”.

Now, I have a lot of respect for Ian Bennett but we know that his book uses the same plates of 'Orientteppeche, Band 1, Kaukasus 1979” by German writer Doris Eder, even if the text seems to be completely Bennet'ts, not a tranlation...
How Bennett knew about the "structural grounds" of the rug in the photo?
Unless the original German text indicated them. If so, why don't publish them?

Anyway, at least the photo is another example of this kind of rug, whatever we want to call it.

The border, however, still baffles me.


August 5th, 2019 05:40 PM
Filiberto Boncompagni Hi Ian,

I don't remember having seen that border. But the rug itself doesn't present the typical Bidjov design.
In Bennett's "Caucasian" there is a B&W photo of an almost identical rug - with a different set of borders. Bennett put it in the Shirvan Baku section.
Tomorrow I will post a scan of it.

August 5th, 2019 03:28 PM
Ian Strange
Does Anyone Know What This Main Border is Called?

This is a Bijov (Bijo) Shirvan rug. I can't find any picture of a rug with such a main border anywhere.

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