http://www.turkotek.com/VB37 A place where rug enthusiasts can connect en Wed, 16 May 2012 22:59:21 GMT vBulletin 60 http://turkotek.com/VB37/images/misc/rss.jpg http://www.turkotek.com/VB37 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1350&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 14:49:57 GMT hello Dont know too much about baluch weavings but really liked this one. Would be interested to know if anybody can point to which region of... hello

Dont know too much about baluch weavings but really liked this one.

Would be interested to know if anybody can point to which region of baluchistan/afghanistan it can from and approximate how old.

Photos make it look a lot brighter than it is. Deep soft, velvety pile, the wools almost oily





Look forward to your comments

Best regards

Graham Mercer ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Graham L Mercer http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1350 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1349&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 14:43:30 GMT Hello Would anybody be kind enough to help identiy this piece I recently picked up Really interesting spacing and design, but colours a bit faded... Hello

Would anybody be kind enough to help identiy this piece I recently picked up

Really interesting spacing and design, but colours a bit faded out but have been really nice.

Soft and floppy with loose knotting. Seen better days





]]> Virtual Show and Tell Graham L Mercer http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1349 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1346&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 15:35:31 GMT I'm trying to identify / confirm the tapestry in the attached photos. I am told it is from Turkmenistan. It has embroidery that depicts a king's marriage celebration, and was made in 1862. Accurate? Yes, No? Any ideas? Thanks, Roland





]]> Virtual Show and Tell Roland Gallatin http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1346 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1343&goto=newpost Sat, 12 May 2012 19:49:48 GMT Thanks Franscesca for posting this interesting analysis of dyes. I must say though, that I find the rug designs, particularly the spiral vine design... Thanks Franscesca for posting this interesting analysis of dyes.

I must say though, that I find the rug designs, particularly the spiral vine design of Catalog Carpet #2 to be most interesting. Both the vine design and the greek key border (as well as the general shape) all resemble designs common on a Tibetan Khaden. However, one very rarely sees these in more recent Chinese rugs.

Perhaps this rug was made for a Kang (heated sleeping platform) and therefore, like a Khaden it's main purpose was to be slept upon, thus explaining the shape, and perhaps the design, being imitative of Tibetan carpets used for this purpose (which in turn often imitated designs on Chinese brocades).

Any thoughts in this regard? ]]> Mini-Salon 28: Chinese Dyes. by Francesca Fiorentino Jeff Sun http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1343 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1342&goto=newpost Thu, 10 May 2012 13:51:02 GMT First let me thank Francesca for a very useful and informative essay. Secondly, I would like to ask whether any of the dyes or mordants used on these... First let me thank Francesca for a very useful and informative essay. Secondly, I would like to ask whether any of the dyes or mordants used on these rugs were harmful to the wool like the iron used for black or brown in "western" rugs. I have a circa 1800 pillar carpet with what I have learned from this essay is dyed with sappanwood (or its like), in that the color has faded over time from a dark apricot to a lighter one. I have also noticed that the other colors - blue and white - are now higher than the apricot field color. I have attributed this to some type of corrosion. Any information about wool corrosion from any of these dyes or mordants would be appreciated.
Thank you again,
Marvin ]]> Mini-Salon 28: Chinese Dyes. by Francesca Fiorentino Marvin Amstey http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1342 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1341&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 12:20:09 GMT Hi Folks For your convenience, here (http://www.turkotek.com/mini_salon_00028/salon.html) is a link to the main essay. Regards Steve Price Hi Folks

For your convenience, here is a link to the main essay.

Regards

Steve Price ]]> Mini-Salon 28: Chinese Dyes. by Francesca Fiorentino Steve Price http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1341 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1340&goto=newpost Tue, 08 May 2012 19:43:36 GMT Several years ago I purchased a beautiful felt rug in San Francisco. It sits on my wood floor in my log house in front of the fire place. My... Several years ago I purchased a beautiful felt rug in San Francisco. It sits on my wood floor in my log house in front of the fire place. My Chihuahua discovered that if her stomach is upset she can tear up pieces of the felt and eat them. I've purchased felting needles and can repair the areas that are just a little ruffled. My problem is the missing wool. Of course the yarn that is available is totally unsuitable. Has anyone solved a problem like this?

Now I know to stick the dog in her crate at the first sign of problems.

Thanks!



]]> Virtual Show and Tell Amy Jo Smith http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1340 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1338&goto=newpost Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:58 GMT Dear All, I need help with the age and origin of this rug please. My mother received this as a gift 25 years ago from a well travelled... Dear All,

I need help with the age and origin of this rug please.

My mother received this as a gift 25 years ago from a well travelled Baronet.








Kind regards from Great Britain,

Gerard Robson ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Gerard Robson http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1338 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1337&goto=newpost Mon, 07 May 2012 00:18:42 GMT Hello All,

Has anyone come across this synthetic green before? Off the top of my head I don't remembering having seen it ever.

Two other greens in the lower pics seem pukkah as do the rest of the colours. Even the pink, though it is tip-faded looks like that Persian pink that I always think of as a bit of an acquired taste.











The rug is Kurdish and the upper border has the synthetics plus some cranky drawing. Afterwards it's all good.

Thanks for looking,

Philip ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Philip Loftus http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1337 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1336&goto=newpost Sat, 05 May 2012 16:34:16 GMT Hi Folks,

I just got this kilim that the seller described as a "Caucasian horse saddle blanket." I noticed that the same seller had sold a couple of similar pieces and currently has about five more for sale. All are about 3' x 5' and are primarily slit-tapestry with long painweave ends. The designs look Caucasian (particularly Shirvan) or perhaps Shahsavan.

My problem is, I've never seen Caucasian or Shahsavan kilims in this size or with these sorts of plainweave ends. I've looked through various books (Nooter, Tanavoli and some kilim surveys) and scoured the Web, but haven't found any analogues. And this one seller has bunches of them! Is this a format that these groups (or some other I've neglected) produced?

The one I have in hand sure doesn't look like new production (though who knows to what lengths folks go to "age" new stuff for sale as antique). Might these have been pieced together from fragments of larger kilims or perhaps from mafrash panels? I include a close-up from where the plainweave joins the field, in case that provides any clue.





and here's another that the same seller recently sold:



Thanks for any and all suggestions.



Joel Greifinger ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Joel Greifinger http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1336 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1335&goto=newpost Thu, 03 May 2012 17:16:15 GMT Hi, i was wondering if anyone owned this catalogue;

Sotheby's Carpets April 5, 2006 London

and if so, they would be able to scan an image of a rug that sold.

The image I am seeking is of Lot 104 | A NINGHSIA SEAT COVER, WEST CHINA

I cannot find a copy of this catalogue anywhere and so hope someone has it and also has a scanner.

I would be most grateful !!!!!!!


Regards

Richard Tomlinson ]]> Miscellaneous (rug-related) Topics richard tomlinson http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1335 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1332&goto=newpost Tue, 01 May 2012 16:57:08 GMT Dear all,

I don't know what to make out of this Caucasian rug which, I think, without wanting to force the things, has elements that might ultimately render it a Bordjalou. Wishful thinking? Perhaps. Yet it is its confindent design and shapes that I am attracted to rather than to its hues (which, nevertheleses, or at least some of them, are not too bad either). So it may be the real thing.
As to its age, I'd come up with the number 1920's A.D. Is it too an optimistical early estimate? The rug is too confident in its 'totemic' design, not conventionally beautiful but weird and majestic, to be ascribed to those co-ops revived by the Soviets.
Say what you say but this is not a Stalinist rug :mad:
In calling it Bordjalou I can't really tell if it hails from the Bordjalou geographical area or it was woven somewhere else in Georgia/Armenia/Azerbaidjan in a more urban millieu. So let's the (badly taken) pictures speak for themselves...


What could it be this flower? Calling on botanists... It could be the so-called tiger paw aster. (see photo) Calistephus chinesis.


The main border has something 'Avar' in it imho...










In an indoor context. It fits this 19th century made in Europe 'Orientalized' hackberry wood furniture which features a double mihrab so to call it. (I am not so keen on it personally but it's a family thing)







It is the shape of this vague 'fleur-de-lys-ish' things that led me speculate that it is one and the same thing with the swallow-like shape depicted on this 16th-17th century table cloth.



ROGNIER, Nicolas (1591-1667). "The Fortune Teller", 1625

Greetings and sorry to have made it as long!
Many thanks,
Cornelius ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Cornelius Frandes http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1332 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1315&goto=newpost Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:12:23 GMT bonjour à tous back on Turkotek to show you what I have rescued last weekend at my favourite flea market. The rug is quite hudge (about 3.5x2... bonjour à tous

back on Turkotek to show you what I have rescued last weekend at my favourite flea market.

The rug is quite hudge (about 3.5x2 m).

Structure :
warps : peper and salt wool, on the same level
wefts : dark brown wool
knots : ass right
kn density : 26 hx 27v = 702 kn/100cm2
colors : seem all natural (2 blues, several madder from light to dark orange red, very beautifull yellow, dark brown or quite black, natural bright undyed white).

Design : three medalions, numerous flower and herati devices in the field. The wide and luxury herati (meander/palmettes) main border is the distinctive caracteristic of this rug. This border is very large and the design shows a great developpement. The unusual feature is the meander line, drawn in black and overligned by a yellow row of knots.
I have looked for analog borders in my rugbook collection : nothing with this design.
I suppose this rug is from Persia. This is in my opinion not a town rug, but a village rug designed after urban models with a strong tribal "perfume".

There are also two cartouches with inscription (translation needed)

This rug is quite worn, especially two thirds of the field, but it keeps a very impressive aspect due to its very remarquable border.

















CORDIALEMENT

LOUIS ]]> Virtual Show and Tell Louis Dubreuil http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1315 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1311&goto=newpost Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:36:38 GMT Hi all, The 1494 painting below (FIG 1) features a successful limb transplant, but, next to surgeons it might be interesting for rug experts too.... Hi all,
The 1494 painting below (FIG 1) features a successful limb transplant, but, next to surgeons it might be interesting for rug experts too. The field motif shows a clear Renaissance influence. The palette, in particular the reddish beige (or dullish orange) can be seen in several extant sixteenth century Spanish rugs.
IMHO the border still has an Islamic flavor, but I would rather not start a «Kufic»-type polemic here. :angelic:

FIG 1. Master of Los Balbases, 1495, Sts. Cosmas' and Damian's miracle, detail. Welcome Library.


The following pictures show examples of extant Spanish rugs in which the Mujedar tradition is in part superseded by Renaissance influences.

FIG 2. Spanish. Sixteenth century. 549X283.MIAQ


FIG 3. Spanish, probably Alcaraz, fragment. Sixteenth century.


FIG 4. Spanish, probably Cuenca. Sixteenth century. MNAD


FAQ:
What on earth are «Balbases» ?
Answer: I don’t have a clue, but «Los Balbases» is a Spanish village, once fief of a Genoan military luminary fighting for the King of Spain: Ambrogio Spinola. (Wikipedia dixit)
Mujedar ?
Answer:When the Spanish «Reconquista» started, the population of «Al Andalus» ( initially meaning most of the Iberian peninsula) had already adopted Islam. The Reconquista was nearly complete by 1370 (leaving in Muslim hands only the small and weak Nasrid kingdom of Granada which was annexed too in 1492). Spain had to integrate and slowly re-christianize this large Muslim population. Even in the north of Spain a large percentage of farmers and artisans were Mujedar (Muslim or former Muslim). For us ruggies it is interesting to remember that the main centers of rug weaving ( Chinchilla, Alcaraz, Cuenca,...) were in Christian hands nearly two centuries before the fall of Granada, but rugs were still woven by Mujedars. ]]> 3. Geometric Rugs in Early Renaissance Paintings Pierre Galafassi http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1311 http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1305&goto=newpost Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:39:20 GMT Hi all, Even though the first Persian miniatures were created to illustrate technical or scientific manuscripts, from the Seldjuk school of Baghdad... Hi all,

Even though the first Persian miniatures were created to illustrate technical or scientific manuscripts, from the Seldjuk school of Baghdad onward (eleventh century), attention to detail, naturalistic rendition of people, clothes and objects were rarely considered priorities by miniaturists when illustrating literary plots and their pigments (gold, lapis lazuli, cinnabar etc..) were often brighter than life.

Thus any ruggie looking for good examples of Seldjuk- or Timurid- rugs in miniatures should take their representation cum grano salis.

However, there are some examples of perfectly credible rugs, especially in miniatures painted during the late Il-khanid period (school of Tabriz). We have already shown two such cases in the Salon «Animal-rugs in old masters paintings».
FIG 1. 1330-1340. Il-khanid period. The bier of Iskander. Tabriz. Freer-Sackler.


FIG 2. 1330-1336. Il-khanid period. Zohnak enthroned. Detail. Freer-Sackler.


It is quite possible that both Il-khanid miniatures below also give a realistic representation of a type of fourteenth century turco-mongol rug, characterized by a narrow border and a field of regular «waves».
FIG 3. 1300-1325. Il-khanid period. Birth of Ghazan. Stadtsbibliothek Berlin.


FIG 4. 1300-1340. Il-khanid period. Ghazan reading the Koran. Stadtsbibliothek Berlin.


This, otherwise unknown, field of «waves» might have survived in two extant rugs, both dated from the eighteenth century, which H. Kirchheim and al. (1) tentatively attribute to northwestern Iran.

FIG 5. North western Iran. Eighteenth century. H Kirchheim.(1)

FIG 6. North western Iran. Eighteenth century. H Kirchheim.(1)


Best regards
Pierre

(1) Orient Stars. H. Kirchheim. Pages 120-121 (text) and 150-151 (pictures) ]]> 3. Geometric Rugs in Early Renaissance Paintings Pierre Galafassi http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/showthread.php?t=1305